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VZ - intermittent starting issue


Flash

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I've got an intermittent issue with my daily drive that has me stumped and I'm hoping that someone here in "oldschool land" can point me in the right direction. It's a 2005 VZ Storm manual ute that sometimes just decides its not going to start. I'll get to the ute, unlock it with the remote, climb in, put my foot on the clutch and turn the key, dash lights come on and then ........ nothing.  Lights and fan and everything else works perfect but the starter motor just wont turn over. Thinking that the system is somehow confused I'll  lock and unlock and try again but get the same results. If I disconnect the battery live terminal, leave it for around 5 minutes and then reconnect the battery she starts first time and runs as per normal. Did it to me twice today and it's getting pretty annoying. 

Anyone got any ideas on what the issue could be ?

Thanks for reading.

 

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Does the starter relay click when you turn the key?

 

Not 100% on the vz but autos will do that when the neutral safety switch is dicky. Perhaps the one on the clutch is on its way out, or I feel there's an extra bit of loom in these (all get an auto loom but the manuals get an extra bit to bypass that) that may have a dicky connection.

 

 

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1 hour ago, tortron said:

Does the starter relay click when you turn the key?

 

Not 100% on the vz but autos will do that when the neutral safety switch is dicky. Perhaps the one on the clutch is on its way out, or I feel there's an extra bit of loom in these (all get an auto loom but the manuals get an extra bit to bypass that) that may have a dicky connection.

 

 

Thanks for the suggestion. No relay click. Also tried the old trick of rocking the ute in gear thinking that it may be a starter related issue.

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21 minutes ago, Shakotom said:

Is the red padlock icon on the dash illuminated when the no start fault occours?

Thanks, that's a bloody good question. Can't say that I noticed whether the red padlock was illuminated. I've just tried to recreate the problem, but no luck.... typical.  I'll check for the red padlock icon next time it happens.

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With it’s an intermittent fault, it’ll be a PIA to fault

next time it goes to no start, see if padlocks on the dash 

if it’s illuminated/flashing, I’d guess an immobiliser / remote issue. -remotes are not really serviceable on them. At that point I’d say take to dealer. Remove key and flip 180 degrees into the ignition and try again see if that changes anything

(they complete the circuit back through the metal tab on the key and the metal ring round the ignition switch, any wear /not making contact will not really help the issue)

if it’s not illuminated/flashing when it faults, turn the ignition back off, remove the key from ign open and close door and wait till padlock comes on dash. Reinsert key and turn ign to position 2 and check padlock goes out. Then try and start.

Also, any other warnings on the dash when it won’t start? Eg service vechile soon?

 

Also as tori says, maybe clutch switch issue too if they have that. Been a while since I’ve been near a vz. Put head under dash and have a geeze around the clutch pedal

cruise control work?

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52 minutes ago, Shakotom said:

With it’s an intermittent fault, it’ll be a PIA to fault

next time it goes to no start, see if padlocks on the dash 

if it’s illuminated/flashing, I’d guess an immobiliser / remote issue. -remotes are not really serviceable on them. At that point I’d say take to dealer. Remove key and flip 180 degrees into the ignition and try again see if that changes anything

(they complete the circuit back through the metal tab on the key and the metal ring round the ignition switch, any wear /not making contact will not really help the issue)

if it’s not illuminated/flashing when it faults, turn the ignition back off, remove the key from ign open and close door and wait till padlock comes on dash. Reinsert key and turn ign to position 2 and check padlock goes out. Then try and start.

Also, any other warnings on the dash when it won’t start? Eg service vechile soon?

 

Also as tori says, maybe clutch switch issue too if they have that. Been a while since I’ve been near a vz. Put head under dash and have a geeze around the clutch pedal

cruise control work?

Thanks for the extra pointers. Funny you should mention a possible immobiliser / remote issue as that is what I am leaning towards too. When I bought the ute about 2 years ago it didn't have a spare key and I figured that was a bit of a risk so I headed to a locksmith to see if they could cut and programme a spare for me. New remote opened the ute fine but the new key wouldn't turn in the ignition. Took it back and the locksmith said it was down to the old key / remote being a copy and a "copy from a copy" can cause issues (according to him). He put the new remote on my original key and suggested that I go to Holden to get an original key, but I've never bothered. Maybe this is something I should now be doing.

During today's second episode I disconnected the battery and only left it disconnected for about a minute. Again it wouldn't start, but in this instance I did get a Service vehicle soon message as well as a low fuel message which was interesting as the tank was about half full and I also noticed that the fuel gauge showed empty. It then flashed something about "faulty fuel sender" or something along those lines. I disconnected the battery again and left it for about 5 minutes before connecting it up. Climbed in and it fired up straight away. No messages and the fuel gauge was back to normal.

Just do short distances around town so I've never tried the cruise control. Wouldn't know if it is working or not.

I'm also thinking that maybe I should  bypass the clutch switch temporarily to rule that out as the issue. Like you say it's a real bugger when its so intermittent.

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1 hour ago, kyteler said:

Sounds similar to a key transponder / security nonsense issue you get on BMWs.  Might be either playing up or bad voltage / batteries. 

Yep, my thoughts too. Pity I didn't notice whether the lock icon is alight when I have the issue as that would probably be the clincher.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Yup key issue. We had that too.

No need to go yo holden and spend $$$$$$. I think it was about $120 to get a replacement fitted to key and then programmed to suit car using one of those in-mall key cutters.

 

What i can say is GET IT FIXED... Because it stops being intermittent and then ya stuck lol

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Tbh the svs vechile soon warming on the dash/low fuel message combined with the no start has me suspecting it’s actually a faulty ECM and not the car key. Especially if it’s disarming the security system fine 

get it scanned, it’ll probably have some fault code to do with the starter supply circuit stored and will have lost/be loosing the driver to earth the starter relay signal wire

 

Alloytech v6 right?

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  • 1 year later...
On 16/09/2019 at 11:41, Shakotom said:

Tbh the svs vechile soon warming on the dash/low fuel message combined with the no start has me suspecting it’s actually a faulty ECM and not the car key. Especially if it’s disarming the security system fine 

get it scanned, it’ll probably have some fault code to do with the starter supply circuit stored and will have lost/be loosing the driver to earth the starter relay signal wire

 

Alloytech v6 right?

Yes I have this exact problem. Have 2original keys, starts every now and then. 

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VZs shit PCMs, BCMs and PIMs all the time. Annoyingly they all present near identical issues regardless of which module fails. As Tom said, the Service Vehicle Soon displaying while not starting is a giveaway of this issue.

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On 30/08/2019 at 18:20, Flash said:

faulty fuel sender

Oooh yep you have bigger issues than the keys. That's fucked ECU right there.

I fucking hate VZs. Whoever designed the computers must have been on meth or something.

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Can confirm that replacing the ECU resolved this issue for me. The soldered joints in them go bad due to heat cycling because some genius at Holden decided that mounting the ECU on the engine seemed like a good idea. 

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I've heard its not that easy to DIY. There is a crowd here in Straya down Melbourne way who have purchased a special machine to re-solder them. Only issue is you need to send them your ECU, BCM and some other bits and bobs in case they need to re-program it. I ended up spending a bit extra for a new unit from my local Holden dealership as they were prepared to warranty the job. 

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