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Escort / Xflow Idling Issues - I'm stumped.


kdotlowe

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Hi all,

I've been battling some running issues with my Escort (1600 Xflow w/ Weber 32DGV) for the past few months. Seeking some advice. Sorry long post ahead.

The car was running a little rough and also had a leak from the oil pump. I pulled off the oil pump and inlet to replace gaskets and clean out the carb. I've refitted the inlet and the carb with new gaskets and insulators. Once reassembled when I went to start the car it would only run if I pumped the throttle - indicating that it's only running from the accelerator pump. If I stop pumping the throttle the revs would taper off and die.

I've since pulled everything off, rebuilt the carb with a rebuild kit and reinstalled with new gaskets etc. Still having the same issue.

This lead me to believe it was a vacuum leak, but after reinstalling everything with new gaskets and also plugging the breather and vacuum lines I'm still having the same symptom. I can't easily test vacuum leaks with an engine starter as I have to be pumping the throttle to get it to run so any rev changes would be unnoticeable

Few queries.
- If I've mixed up the carb jets, would this prevent it from idling? I've tried switching back and forth with no luck and I'd assume it would still run somewhat either way.

Any one have any ideas on what I should be looking for next? Close to throwing in the towel. Alternatively, can anyone recommend and Auckland based mechanic that's good with this sort of thing?

Thanks in advance!
K
 

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I havent played on one of these in 25 years so these are only general musings. I don't know your skill level so sorry if I'm telling you to suck eggs.

Is it running on 4 when you give it the squirt? Or really lumpy. Like have you mixed a couple of plug leads and its running on 2? Get it to run by pumping it for a few (10-20) seconds from cold then feel the exhaust manifold, are all branches the same lukewarm? If 2 are dead cold, thats a problem. All the same temp, or at least firing, and you didn't play with the distributor or have the leads off, then it is more likely  carbie or vacuum.

Crank the engine with the fuel line to the carb off. Are you getting enough fuel supplied from the fuel pump? Can you check the fuel float level, is the new needle/ seat assy letting enough fuel in? A quarter full carb will get a car firing on constant prodding the pedal but not have enough "head" to get fuel thru the venturis. 

 Can you get someone to pump it to keep it running while you spray short bursts of Start-ya-bastard around the base gasket and manifold to block surface?( keep yer head away incase the engine backfires) If it irons out the issue a bit you have pinpointed the problem to where you are squirting

 Cant remember where the brake booster pulls vacuum from but have you cracked the vacuum hose pulling it off or refitting? Not sure if thats the vac line you mentioned but if it is leaking/old/cracked its big enough to kill the engine. The dist vac line off won't give that much grief

Can you mix up the jets in the same venturi? Swapping side to side shouldn't be a problem, swapping around within the venturi(if you even can) would be sub optimal at least. Do you know now where you started from with what jet is where?  Has kitting the carb  made it better or worse than it was after the manifold was removed? If it is the same bag of balls you haven't manifestly fucked things up doing the carbie job, the oil leak/inlet manifold job is where it all fell apart. 

Have you got the old carbie gaskets etc. There are normally a choice of top gaskets with different holes and portings. Compare what you fitted with what you removed. 

It sounds like there be 2 issues. #1 was the running a little rough.# 2 is bag of balls since the inlet manifold was removed.

Be calm, use logic. Good luck.

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3 hours ago, moparmuppet said:

I havent played on one of these in 25 years so these are only general musings. I don't know your skill level so sorry if I'm telling you to suck eggs.

Thanks for this. Given me a new direction to start problem solving. I've just pulled the carb off again. My car has a water choke that isn't functional (the coil has been removed) but I pulled it apart for peace of mind and I've discovered a tear in the diaphragm...ugh. By looking at the carb, this passage leads to an outlet below the throttle butterflies. SO if I'm correct, it looks like this could be a source of the air leak?

3 hours ago, moparmuppet said:

Is it running on 4 when you give it the squirt? Or really lumpy. Like have you mixed a couple of plug leads and its running on 2? Get it to run by pumping it for a few (10-20) seconds from cold then feel the exhaust manifold, are all branches the same lukewarm? If 2 are dead cold, thats a problem. All the same temp, or at least firing, and you didn't play with the distributor or have the leads off, then it is more likely  carbie or vacuum.

Definitely running on all four. It actually revs really nice and normal. 

3 hours ago, moparmuppet said:

Crank the engine with the fuel line to the carb off. Are you getting enough fuel supplied from the fuel pump? Can you check the fuel float level, is the new needle/ seat assy letting enough fuel in? A quarter full carb will get a car firing on constant prodding the pedal but not have enough "head" to get fuel thru the venturis. 

Can you get someone to pump it to keep it running while you spray short bursts of Start-ya-bastard around the base gasket and manifold to block surface?( keep yer head away incase the engine backfires) If it irons out the issue a bit you have pinpointed the problem to where you are squirting

Just double checked the floats, it was a mm or so out so I've adjusted as necessary. Will give the pump and spray method a go when I have an extra set of hands to help.

3 hours ago, moparmuppet said:

Can you mix up the jets in the same venturi? Swapping side to side shouldn't be a problem, swapping around within the venturi(if you even can) would be sub optimal at least. Do you know now where you started from with what jet is where?  Has kitting the carb  made it better or worse than it was after the manifold was removed? If it is the same bag of balls you haven't manifestly fucked things up doing the carbie job, the oil leak/inlet manifold job is where it all fell apart. 

Have you got the old carbie gaskets etc. There are normally a choice of top gaskets with different holes and portings. Compare what you fitted with what you removed. 

Thankfully the carb kit hasn't made it any worse - if anything, the accelerator pump seems to be much more 'snappy'. Gaskets are the same as removed. 

I'm really hoping it's just the choke diaphragm leak that's the issue. I'll get properly into when I get a day off work but thanks so much for the pointers. Sometimes you just need another person's input so you're not going round in circles.

Thanks! 

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As soon as I saw the thread title I thought: 'torn diaphragm', so well done for spotting that K Dot. These engines run like a dog when those diaphragms fail.

The next most obvious culprit would be float setting or a bad float needle valve... but it sounds like you've got it under control.

Good luck and hopefully she fires right up so you can spend hours trying to adjust the mixture correctly! If she doesn't run well  a vacuum leak may give you the symptoms you are seeing, but this one sounds more like a wet fuel delivery problem (rather than an atomized fuel delivery problem)

IIRC you should be able to take to top off the DGV carb (after the engine has run for a little bit, albeit roughly) and you should see fuel in the float bowl. If you don't you have either messed up the float setting or have an issue somewhere between the bowl and the fuel tank

 

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The oil pumps are external on those motors Mof.... but good point. If it was the fuel pump that was removed then..... Ha!

P.S: the oil pump works off a scroll driven by a helical segment of the camshaft. The factory fuel pump also runs off the cam, but is activated by a lever running on a cam lobe

 

 

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Definitely oil pump haha. 

7 hours ago, Unclejake said:

Good luck and hopefully she fires right up so you can spend hours trying to adjust the mixture correctly! If she doesn't run well  a vacuum leak may give you the symptoms you are seeing, but this one sounds more like a wet fuel delivery problem (rather than an atomized fuel delivery problem)

IIRC you should be able to take to top off the DGV carb (after the engine has run for a little bit, albeit roughly) and you should see fuel in the float bowl. If you don't you have either messed up the float setting or have an issue somewhere between the bowl and the fuel tank

Thanks mate. I've definitely got fuel in the bowl (maybe 6-8mm above the main jets.) Really hoping it's just that diaphragm but won't get a chance to look at it again until Friday. Absolutely dreading trying to get the mixture right.

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Throttle spindles wear out on those carbs, mega air leak down the shaft and you can never get a steady idle.

Checking play is hard to do with the return springs in place, but if you hold it at half/full throttle and can give it a wiggle, chances are its time for a spendy rebuild :(

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All sorted as of yesterday!! 

For some reason, when my idle jet is screwed all the way in, it blocks fuel from passing. But only on the primary side. If I back the idle jet holder out 1/4 of a turn it runs perfectly. 

Not sure if that's how it's supposed to be, but it's running mint now *shrug*.

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Forgive my ignorance but is that not exactly how it should operate?  

You wouldn't be able to correctly tune the idle circuit if you couldn't close off it's flow completely to then meter it afterwards? 

Maybe most carbs are worn out from Barry fettling and always let some through. 

Most manuals I've read indicated it should be screwed right in then back out one and a half turns and adjust from there. 

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15 hours ago, kyteler said:

Forgive my ignorance but is that not exactly how it should operate?  

You wouldn't be able to correctly tune the idle circuit if you couldn't close off it's flow completely to then meter it afterwards? 

Maybe most carbs are worn out from Barry fettling and always let some through. 

Most manuals I've read indicated it should be screwed right in then back out one and a half turns and adjust from there. 

Not on the DGV. But correct me if I'm wrong. The idle jets on the side of the carb should be seated and the idle mixture is set by the idle mixture screw which is at the base of the carb. 

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Moot point here hopefully by now ya got it sorted HOWEVER should the carb have drained itself when removed then if the brass tag that connects to the needle valve CAN due to limited motion have a round indentation in it . This can cause the needle valve to stick on same. Simple filing the area back to flat and resetting the float level will remedy.

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