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JoKer

Car wont stay ON [SOLVED : Resistor Block]

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[SOLVED tl:dr Resistor block failed  but read on to see some steps on problem solving with Electronic ignition in my Hillman Avenger]

So drove to work yesterday, Parked all normal (over the Saddle Road)

went to go to lunch & hey that's weird

Car fires but wont 'run', heaps gas & sounds like its all fine until I return the key to On position, car dies

I realise it's fairly basic switching & wires but a little over my head if anyone can dumb it down for a wood worker

Started with the Ign switch inspection (thought it was main fault at first as a little wiggle caused the Alt light to blink)


  pjc08Ctl.png

then tried a second hand unit with exactly the same results, starts but doesn't run


  RxeHA4ul.png

so I'm a bit stumped, checked fuel in line, car runs good with the key in starter position (can rev it a little bit & don't want to wreck starter etc)

more pics & Diagrams & maybe I've answered own question with the manual?


  qgEFcCKl.png


  qVZ1BA5l.png


  eUtzAZ8l.png


  Q2m65Pcl.png


  ya7Jr3zl.png

Ballast resistor? And I'm running Electronic ignition from a later model


  0tGbiyZl.png

so other than the chances of the second ign switch having same fault (unlikely) which most obvious Sparky boi have I over looked"?

Internal guts of the ign switch are fairly simple too only one contact covering 1/5 > 3/2

1 : to Starter motor

2 : Acc

3 : Dash

5: (labeled it 4 on sticker) is main feed from Battery

Edited by JoKer
SOLVED / update
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before I go & let the smoke out that's be all of them together & touch the starter to the bunch right?

I do have a multi meter on my & get a circuit through the ign switch, mostly in the start position?

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12 minutes ago, azzurro said:

hotwire it you can rule in/out the ign switches

confirmed same result(starts but wont run)

power to the coil eh

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Yep. 2 3 5 together and 1 should crank the starter

With 2 3 5 Toogether check for voltage at the feed to the resistor after the resistor and also at the coil +

Should be close to battery voltage going in to the resistor. I think around 9v coming out? More than zero anyway!

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got 12's on one prong on the Ballast resistor

(bottom right only on the white block)

0tGbiyZl.png

and 11-12 on both sides of Coil (car "on" position") its tucked under battery tray so cant quite see which is the + side

can tell some of this is a two man job (crank & check) and there's only one of me here currently

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Other terminal of the coil is the ground trigger from the dizzy. Should be 0v ( relative to earth).

If it is 12v then Could be the control module in the dizzy is bust?

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Coil report

12.14 Volts from BOTH sides (all plugged in correct & car ON)

I suggest its feeding right through to the -Ve side (does a coil do this normally? its name does suggest a coil or wire right?)

as in, unplugging the -ve side still results in the 12.14V with the +ve feed still live or I was going to suggest points in contact but its not got points anymore... 

or is my coil shot? & yep sorry hard to diagnose over the internet hope I'm providing adequate information & tests, gees I used to love circuits & Techno stuff

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The 12v is probably coming back at ya from the dizzy.

 ign module or points  ground to collapse the coil field and make a hv spark. Cant recall if its normally 12v when not gounded or just open circuit?

When cranking tye starter i think 12v goes to the coil (resistor bypassed) and once running it only gets the resistors 9v. 

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yea there's only one feed on the + side of coil (12v on) and one on the -ve side of coil (there may have been a falling off = main problem as there a couple of spare wire in the area but nothing that looks like its lost its home if you catch my drift)

with the -ve lead unpligged the -ve side of the coil still has the 12V, the -ve lead has nothing

appreciate hard to see where you are lol might take more pics tomorrow after I've put ignition & steering back together (easier to get the shear bolts out) oddly my spare parts Ign still has intact shear bolts! Never seen them 'live' before


  3nf35Tql.png

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6 hours ago, JoKer said:

got 12's on one prong on the Ballast resistor

(bottom right only on the white block)

That sounds odd?

I'd expect to see about 12V on both ends of the ballast?

If the ballast Resistor is toast, the car may spark when cranking (ballast is bypassed), then stop when releasing the cranking (tries to feed coil thru that Resistor).

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Ace (yep fully aware potentially answered my own question in OP then went off man-looking for other problems to focus on)

will swap it out & report when I get a chance today (Last minute Xmas orders to make & try to get out)


  HaMBT6wl.png

is there a work around should this ever happen again? or do I just add to the list of spares to carry in an emergency?

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22 hours ago, JoKer said:

ya7Jr3zl.png

Ballast resistor? And I'm running Electronic ignition from a later model

Chapter 4.


  yb4XbAil.png

(hoping this info may help someone here one day & not just me making noise : been a points man since 1997 > 2017)


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so I whip out me multi meter 

I also found this sweet Clock in my parts Bin!


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Measuring the Ohm's : Low side


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High


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one in the car same test : Low


  g14Winol.png
 

Nothing

High


  dtVDMx6l.png

Confirmed!

Plug in spare block & it fires up instantly

Any clues to why or how it failed other than "they do that"

was weird how it ran when parked : then dead

[SOLVED]

also obviously the multi meter has read different figures to what I was expecting, that I wrote on the side, is it ok to run this block? Or will it let the smoke out too?

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Looks near enough to me. You could measure the current (tricky, with AC) if you're concerned. Keep an eye/nose out for coil getting too hot, etc

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51 minutes ago, h4nd said:

coil getting hot

cool yeah ta that was one of the mentions of why the Ballast may fail too (gets hot OFF Load) so might look at moving it a tad to aid cooling too

Thanks heaps OS!

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