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Lowering the engine cross member?


Adoom

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So I offered the 1uz and W57 up to the Triumph 2000.

On paper, it fits. In person, it's really tight. I won't be able to use those shiney stainless extractors that came with it.

The main problem I have is the sump and the steering rack want to occupy the same place.

The rack is mounted to the front of the cross member. The cross member also has the lower arm mounts on it.

If I raise the engine, I'll need to start cutting holes in the bonnet, which I'd like to avoid doing. I already need to notch one of the bonnet ribs to clear the throttle body.

Then I thought if I could move the rack mounts lower. But that will give me bump steer, which is bad.

I came across photos of a Triumph stag(front end is basically the same) with a 1UZ. In one of the few photos(fuck you photobucket) it looks like he has spaced the cross member down.

What would be the downside of lowering the cross member with the rack and suspension mounts? Probably as much as 50mm!

As far as I understand, the effect on the suspension would be the same as if I had lowered the car 50mm...

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So I had a thought. The steering arm has the ball joint mounted on top, like this. (Not my car)

Tierod.jpg.634b6de04a04ba39625ec0f6d12dde2c.jpg

If I moved the ball joint to the bottom of the steering arm, I could move the rack down quite a bit. I'll need to check if it then gets in the way of a wheel. 

Of course the taper would be the wrong way, but I could get it machined and sleeved to fix the taper. Right? @cletus

Or is this also going to affect bump steer.

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Get a front sump cut trans mounts off rotate 180 degrees weld mounts back on other end scratch head build oil pick up. Sounds easy put like that should work though 90% sure bolt pattern will allow the sump to go on backwards.

If your looking up Sparrow on here he bought the left overs of my Lexus v8 mk1 2000 Triumph mainly my independent Ford 9" Diff 15 or so years ago. I saw his car it was very well done but had a few compromised things to make it work at the time.

I used a mid sump and sunk the engine back into the firewall been a mk1 the heater was in the engine bay so not a huge cut was needed. I had Dave Bray check it out at the time been a race car builder he insisted this was the best solution to keep the suspension geometry good (for a triumph) and get weight back where it would be beneficial.

Tunnel needed love but it all went in, driveshaft was around a meter long. Is this going to be a racecar or street car?

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9 hours ago, Muncie said:

Get a front sump cut trans mounts off rotate 180 degrees weld mounts back on other end scratch head build oil pick up. Sounds easy put like that should work though 90% sure bolt pattern will allow the sump to go on backwards.

If your looking up Sparrow on here he bought the left overs of my Lexus v8 mk1 2000 Triumph mainly my independent Ford 9" Diff 15 or so years ago. I saw his car it was very well done but had a few compromised things to make it work at the time.

I used a mid sump and sunk the engine back into the firewall been a mk1 the heater was in the engine bay so not a huge cut was needed. I had Dave Bray check it out at the time been a race car builder he insisted this was the best solution to keep the suspension geometry good (for a triumph) and get weight back where it would be beneficial.

Tunnel needed love but it all went in, driveshaft was around a meter long. Is this going to be a racecar or street car?

It's going to be a street car.

I have a front sump that came on the engine. I also have a 'rear' sump from an SC400, that I paid far too much money for, currently installed on the engine. I will exhaust all other options before hacking into the sump.

Cutting the firewall is still an option, it just means I'll have to modify/replace/move/something the heater. The further back the engine goes, I gain a little height so the engine might be able to go higher.  

I have come across references to Sparrow's stag. But I have no real names or contact details. All his photos on OS are dead. I think the only one I have seen is from the top of the engine bay. 

I found another guy on Lextreme with a Stag in Australia.

http://www.lextreme.com/forums/index.php?threads/vvti-goodness-into-a-triumph-stag.15649/

He "As a result I had to make a custom crossmember. This has been a time consuming task as it is a complex shape and I had to make sure I didn't introduce bump steer by lowering the steering rack. To do this I had to make custom steering arms." and he cut the sump. The photos are few and from too far away to make out much detail.

 

 

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Sparrow is active on Lextreme. 

When I did mine setting the engine back left me a lot of room so I had my alternator mounted in front of the engine back to front essentially I had my exhaust running forward where the alternator was and across the front of the engine and down the passenger side so I didn't have to cross the driveshaft under the car  (was going to be turbo) and less things in way down left hand side too for bigger pipe and hole in rear subframe for exhaust is on that side as well.

I've had a mk2 running a rover v8 that had 30mm subframe spacers. It drove like crap sat high as and understeered horribly lowering it made it even worse and was a real dog! Smacked subframe on everything.

Firewall cut in a mk2 isn't to bad fitting a pick a part heater unit will be beneficial to original ones are garbage. 

Love the project.

 

 

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as above ^ lowering the cross member will probably change geometry for the worse, especially if you are planning on lowering the car. 

nothing ever just drops in on swap like these. you chop the firewall and move the heater and some other things will have to be changed too no doubt. not that its bad its just how it is.

hacking the sump and moving the engine around in the engine bay is probably easier in the long run unless you are looking to get the motor in a certain location for weight balance or some other reason.

 

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Now that youve cut the subframe to clear, Id lower the rack mounts and try flip the tie rods at the hub to correct your steering arm angles.

 

I have mounted the rack in the old mans Chevrolet too high and its inducing bumpsteer, ive got no room to lower it, so Im going to try a pair of offset rackend spacers like we use for the skid racing to move the inner rack ends downwards (instead of inwards like theyre designed to) Could be an idea

save.jpg.d80fef2271162e662ecebe103bdc24d5.jpg

 

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I made some 30mm spacers up for my mk2 escort for the 10a conversion, basically dropped the whole lot down (escort body lift haha)

...I never used them, but gave them to @d.p.n.s for his project...

ask him if he got the project running and how it handled if he did...

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4 minutes ago, Beaubot said:

Now that youve cut the subframe to clear, Id lower the rack mounts and try flip the tie rods at the hub to correct your steering arm angles.

 

I have mounted the rack in the old mans Chevrolet too high and its inducing bumpsteer, ive got no room to lower it, so Im going to try a pair of offset rackend spacers like we use for the skid racing to move the inner rack ends downwards (instead of inwards like theyre designed to) Could be an idea

save.jpg.d80fef2271162e662ecebe103bdc24d5.jpg

 

This could work, but is it certifiable?

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2 minutes ago, ajg193 said:

That wouldn't get past an insurance inspector if you crash and it isn't explicitly certified for it

 

I doubt 90% of the cars on here would get past an insurance inspector (if they bothered to have a look)

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1 hour ago, shizzl said:

I made some 30mm spacers up for my mk2 escort for the 10a conversion, basically dropped the whole lot down (escort body lift haha)

...I never used them, but gave them to @d.p.n.s for his project...

ask him if he got the project running and how it handled if he did...

Hahaha I never finished it mate surprise surprise.

But I can them to another mate that used them and had bad bump steer as the car was lowers heaps... he put rose joints and spacers as the rod ends to lower the steering arms to make it all flat and level.    And it worked well.

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  • 4 years later...

Old thread, but coming across similar issues with the steering rack on my Mk1 and the AJ6 I'm wedging into it. Firewall is quite thoroughly clearanced which has let me drop the engine way back, but there's a little bump at the front of the sump which houses the oil pump and is fouling on the rack (which I already plan to lower by flipping the balljoints upside down).

On the off chance anyone's heard of this before, an idea I've had is to fully flip the front crossmember around so the rack sits behind the subframe rather than in front of it. From an initial look it seems like the subframe mounts are symmetrical, and the front wishbone mount is on the same plane as those mounts. The front spindles are also symmetrical, so could be flipped around to have the steering arm point backwards.

From there it's a case of bending a set of steering arms to sort ackerman and bump steer (hopefully you can use manual rack ones as they're shorter which might help ackerman).

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