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5 Speeds options from 4 Speed Manual


JoKer

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1 hour ago, Firetruck said:

fantasy world

B  Bell housing tho (Of B/C Fame)

worth it just for that I potentially to collectors, cant be many of those around still (NZ Made Speed parts

what sort of stuff required to make that work, figure "just" right diameter Toy Clutch & spacers / shaft output? Literally learning from Zer0 here

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14 hours ago, JoKer said:

Miles's Rally Avenger


I used to have a Close Ratio Avenger box but during a maintenance check I discovered it wasn't in the best condition so looked for a alternative and ended up with a T50 with a close ratio TRD gear set, that was the easy bit, making the bellhousing was the hard bit which involved cutting the bellhousing off an Avenger box, cutting the gearbox end of a T50 bellhousing and welding them together, easy when said quickly...also needed to make a rear Xmember and special propshaft.
Works very well, nice ratios and very pleased with the result.

Hmm sounds like a goer / proven at least

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46 minutes ago, JoKer said:

 

 

Hmm sounds like a goer / proven at least

jesus Jared, one day you're talking budget spec, now you're talking gold nugget spec !! unsure if one can still get a C/R kit for T-50 whilst still being fatherworthy ?

 

didn't get a chance to measure W-50 for you today, but without going stupid custom spendy, they may be a good option

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7 hours ago, smokin'joe said:

budget spec

still the actual Plan, wander down to WIlf's #RIP yard or any other wrecker & scrounge a t50 toyota shell for $200, get clutch, box maybe pedals & bits & sell rest to foamers & get Rich to this

then stare at it for anther 5 years

the CR stuff mentioned was in the Avenger Gearbag Miles was using and Craig Dino in Chch in his Blue one he's also using a type 9 in his white one

any t50 would not be 'built' until I break it as well

wouldn't stress about the w50 for now cheers, mans allowed to dream :D

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Sorry for the thread hijack, but is a Datsun 240Z 5-speed worth $350?  Info on the web suggests should be closer ratio than standard Ford or Toyota 5-speeds.

1972 through 1976 Factory Five Speed Transmission Ratios

     72/76 two piece case 
         Non-US
         FS5C71B
1.       2.906
2.       1.902
3.       1.308
4.       1.000
5        0.864
RearGear  3.900

https://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=1460748709

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1 hour ago, locost_bryan said:

Sorry for the thread hijack

I'm ok with this :P

Happy / half my intention of thread is to discuss the 5 speeds option for any 4 speed upgrade 

ratio's for me are not really an issue currently, just the mecanics

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3 hours ago, JoKer said:

wander down to WIlf's #RIP yard or any other wrecker & scrounge a t50 toyota shell for $200, get clutch, box maybe pedals & bits & sell rest to foamers & get Rich to this

T50 is an AE86 gearbox, so that puts you into the highest Toyota Tax bracket possible.
So like 8000% tax according to this muppet:

https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-parts-accessories/toyota/gear-boxes/auction-1460390328.htm

But more realistically even a non desirable bellhousing / spline count version from a different type of car is likely $500+ these days.
For a flogged out 30 year old heap of shit with 300,000kms on it.
Do not want.

(They are a nice gearbox when in good condition, just not cheap anymore)
 

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The completely opposite way to approach this situation, is to come up with your theoretically ideal gearbox and diff ratio first... and then see what options match.

Soo... What engine speeds do you want to keep between? Looks like change gear at 7500rpm to land at 5000rpm would be good. 

7500 / 5000 = 1.5

So for this, you need the following ratios if you have 1:1 as 4th gear:

1st: 3.375

2nd: 2.25:1 

3rd: 1.5:1

4th: 1:1

5th: 0.66

Then you can put this info into here
http://www.apexgarage.com/tech/gear_ratios.shtml

and tweak your diff ratio up and down until you get near your max speed target hopefully with an available diff ratio.
If you dont have any easily available diff ratio options then it's all the more critical to choose your gearbox correctly, as gearbox ratios and tyre size are the only ways to adjust this.
You'll notice that real life gearboxes dont have the same ratio of rpm drop between the gears, this is usually because each gear has a different "task"
Like 1st gear might be optimised to get the car off the line easily at the lights, 5th gear might be to give a 3000rpm cruising speed, and 2nd/3rd/4th have ratios with accelleration in mind.
Using that calculator above, you can adjust rpm up and down to see what speeds you will be doing in each gear etc etc so you dont end up nanging at 5000rpm when trying to trundle down the motorway in top gear.

You might find that a change of diff ratio helps you acheive what you're wanting just as well as a different box would. 
I have a 6 speed box and I only ever use 4 of the gears on track, this covers ~60kph through to 190+
If you've got ~90hp you're going to max out at probably 140-150kph at Hampton or Taupo full track so all the more reason why (an appropriately ratio'd) 4 speed box is fine for racing.

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oh GOD the science, I'm hooked!! yea Wagon Diff's are 4.11 (low ratio for hauling) good for Rally application, to to stressed about the rear end for now as you point out tires make a difference, pretty sure i have a 3.9 diff currently (welded / locked solid)

Richard aka @Avenga has mentioned he's had his 1500 Avenger to 200kph on Puke with the Sierra 5 speed (not sure which gear, & similar setup cams & build) so yea you have a great point there, keen for something tweakable at some stage or get a setup thats not going to limit me to re-using 40 year old gear sets / stuff that's rusting & rotting in my back yard

shoot could put it over a bank 2 days after (whenever) its done / Whariti Hillclimb is February kinda my goal at the moment (NZ Longest Gravel Hillclimb!

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On 08/11/2017 at 11:55, Roman said:

WIlf's

SO I know of one of these there

aa63outsidefront.jpg

need to investigate a tad further , how would I identify the Gear bag should is still exist?

good ol Wiki says : 

Transmission

4-speed A40D automatic
5-speed W55, W58, T50 manual

 

uless someone knows something I dont?

 

the last w55 I had in my possession I gave away (unknown condition)

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If you have a look in the engine bay, there will be a build plate on there and it'll say T50 or whatever. 

But I'd be surprised if it's still got the box in it, if its something that isnt garbage. 

If you ever see a Toyota that is missing gearbox or diff details on the tag plate. It's likely because it's Australian assembled and has Borg Warner garbage in it. Do not want.

If you do go see that car, take a photo of build plate for me! 

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