Hurmeez

Hurmeez' 1977 Mk2 Escort Estate

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^^^ yeah what he said--- custom flywheel with rx8 ring gear fitted 

I went for the hybrid no flywheel spacer option to get engine as far back as possible without cutting firewall (position is set by gearbox in mx5)

and flywheel spacers scare me much more than rough enough home made adaptor plate 

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Each RX flywheel has the removable counterweight.  Depending on the flywheel you use, you need a particular counterweight to go with it.  If you're not using a counterweight you would have to get the flywheel balanced.

The FD3S has that massive wedge of steel in the bottom of the casting but the SE3P apparently uses the same counterweight irrespective of the dramatic flywheel differences.

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On 01/09/2017 at 07:56, bigfoot said:

If you want a hand pulling engine, let me know and il bring tools

Yea man call an OS working bee, it will be social and cool. Pick a part adventures are always fun. 

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@1963 AP5 A working bee does sound like it would be great fun. I'd be worried that we couldn't get it all pulled in a day considering how long it took me and my dad with full facilities, though I suppose many hands make light work. In any case I'm planning the first trip of a few down to Auckland this weekend so I'll have a look at the candidates and see whether or not they are worth pulling then go from there. 

@kyteler I didn't even notice how much difference there was in the width of the rim on the flywheel. I see where you are coming from now. That does look like it would be quite difficult to get rid of the offset material and balance everything.

Which leads me to @Transom and @yoeddynz's suggestion. I really like the sound of the custom flywheel. It will give me the piece of mind of knowing a dodgy spacer isn't going to break and send a spinning death frisbee at my ankles, as well as the performance gains I'd get from a lighter setup. I've looked into finding a ring gear and it looks like I can source one from this site http://www.ringgear.co.nz/Our_Products.shtml#MAZDA. I've also found a really cheap rx8 flywheel, clutch, and pressure plate that I can use to mock up with a temporary spacer to take measurements off for a custom flywheel. All that's left is sourcing a blank/raw material, as well as finding a machine shop to do it. I'll keep looking into it. 

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Looks really good in there!!!  Heaps of room.

You could always fit a speedy sleeve (or two.. or three.... )  onto your type 9 output shaft, so taking it out in diameter. If the difference is too much for speedy sleeves then it'll be easy enough for a decent machinist to spin up a sleeve to suit. Wouldn't even need to be a super tight fit, just a nice light interference fit with some locktite 601 to be sure. 

Or machine up a new bush for the box and fit a seal with a smaller inner diameter.

In saying all that, if your driveshaft is not the correct length then it'll be modded anyway, so as you were... :-)

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I did think about that but the internet forum "experts"(when are they ever wrong) reckon you're better off using a yoke off an RX-8 driveshaft and getting a shop to make up a custom shaft. Also, since the stock RX prop is carbon fiber, there is a chance that it can be shortened down to suit and then I have a singe piece CF prop shaft to handle both Nm the screaming V6 will produce. In any case, I found one for cheap so I'll get it home and check it out and go from there.

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What year was your donor engine again ? They did some weirdo mix and match engines towards the end of the run KLG4 being one of them some odd mixes of oval ports and 10-1 compression and some crank differences - it does not help that the engines are not stamped with much variant info and the engine may have been replaced sometime in last 20 years anyway 

you can buy a 36-1 front pulley from the last model engine directly replaces the 6 lobe pulley you have - think it's a 1998 up will check part # 

 

 

 

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Yeah the last engines went to coil pack system. 

If I was you I'd ditch the dizzy. They have known faults and you'll often see people wanting a replacement ( which is good for me because I have a stash of them)

But also you gain extra space to move that engine back plus less clutter above the thermostat area where you'll make a pipe to run forwards below the headers for the bottom radiator hose. If you do go aftermarket then the megasquirt has worked so bloody well on mine. You can give you my base tune to start you off with too (although you'll be doing ITBs? )

I'm keen on trying out the Speeduino on one of my spare engines (among which I have a spare KLZE but that's for a future project idea). The thought of getting one working well on a $100 DIY Speeduino ecu is such a neat lure. Money saved for petrol!

The sumps are so easy to modify as well.

I love the fact they have so many decent locating points for mounts. It really is just as if Mazda had ideas about making these engines RWD.

 

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@Transom the donor car was a 98 model with the GW5R chassis code that (according to the internet professors) should have come with the ZE motor. This is a photo I took of the stamping on the head which shows them to be from the DE engine. Apparently the ZE should have KL31-101 rather than the KL-101 that I have. BNwWmjI.jpg

You can also see the square intake ports that are supposed to be a feature of the ZE heads, rather than the oval ones that apparently come on the DEs. I also pulled the cam cover off to check the stamping on the cams and that was that of the lower spec model as well. What is perplexing is the fact that the intake manifold that was on the engine was the one off the higher spec motor. It looked like the one on the left in this photo, rather than the lower spec one on the right. CzQAEya.jpg

I also found another car with the same GW5R chassis number that when I looked at it turned out to have the same stampings as this block so I don't know. 

Again according to the wikipedia, the KLZE was also exclusively put into the Australian model Eunos 800 with no record of the lower spec DE ever being installed. Of course now I'm back up north I've found that there is a Eunos 800 at the Mangere Pick a Part but I can't justify making a special trip all the way down to check it out. If anyone is willing to go and have a squizz for me I'd happily reimburse them for their troubles. 

If you could find the part number for that front pulley I'd be super grateful Transom.

@yoeddynz I'm not sure what I'll do for an intake just yet. ITBs are really appealing but from what I've heard it is difficult to get them setup without paying an arm and a leg. I really like the idea of a twin plenum cross over tunnel ram style of intake, if for no other reason than it looks super bad ass. Or maybe something super sexy like this, 7wdjxdY.jpg 

 But if I can find a set of ITBs for not too crazy money then I'll probably go with them. That said, I'm about to contradict my own cost based argument...

Regarding using a Megasquirt to run the engine, I talked to my father in law and he has a particular hatred for them for some reason. He strongly recommended I go for something like a Link Atom instead. He reckons the Megasquirts are real pains in the ass to try and deal with tuning wise or something and apparently the Links really are worth the extra cost. What are your thoughts on it? I know you are a fan of the MS but what is it really like to learn to use and fiddle around with and so on?

 

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Ahhhhh yes... the old hatred for MS from some.  The hate for some stems from those who have had to deal with poorly built or poorly installed MS ecus. Usually built into cars on a budget and with no real thought about taking time to do a neat reliable install.  Then they play up and take them to a 'professional tuner' who is then required to try and sort the shit out. Often it might all be down to a poorly soldered joint or wrong arranged resistor or what not.

MS will do every thing you would ever need for almost all installs. If you build it yourself, take your time to build it correctly and neatly, double check every thing before you start the install you'll end up with a very satisfying feeling having built your own reliable ECU for not a lot of money!

Then take your time to do a really neat install. This goes for any ECU!!!  Again double check everything, as you should, and you'll be fine. There is so much info out there to be had and so many people to help out.

There are no real issues tuning a MS. In fact the autotune feature (which you get when you buy the $50 version of Tunerstudio) works so bloody well! Within an hour of starting my V6, setting a basic idle tune I was out driving and tuning it with autotune. Very very easy and fun.

Any decent tuning outfit with proper experience should be able to tidy up a MS ECU tune on a rolling road once you're at that point (Ive not even been to one yet, tune Im sure could be better for power but hell its good as it is!)  So long as you have put your bit of effort into building it right and installing it correctly you'll be fine! 

My MS2 ECU cost me $550 USD including buying autotune. I gained so much experience just in the building of it that by the time I had installed it I was already well versed in how they work which helps so much in EFI.

Remember- this is OLDSCHOOL. We dont buy. We BUILD!  :-)

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36-1 crank pulley/harmonic balancer- seller does not send to nz used free shipping to youpost in the usa then paid for shipping to nz

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ONGQMTK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

cam plug that fills the hole where the dizzy was

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00449KKZI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

cheap full gasket sets - cheaper than 2 rocker cover gaskets here

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZASPSP4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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i wouldnt blame the zinc primer too much - tig welding just will not put up with anything except bare metal. you get away with welding over zinc rubbish with mig a little and with stick where the flux deals with the rubbish but tig nope nup nada gotta be clean metal no primer of any kind or the devil will come out of nowhere on you

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@yoeddynz You make a very convincing argument regarding the MS. You may have swayed me for now but I'll keep an open mind and keep looking at all my options, though perhaps now with greater emphasis on the Megasquirt path.
Regarding something you mentioned a few posts back, I have been trying to think about how I'm going to handle the coolant system. If I use the stock setup I'm not sure how I can route the line from the back of the block to the radiator while still keeping it nicely packaged. How do most people handle it? I'm considering a custom design that deletes the pipe that runs between the cylinder banks and shifts the thermostat to the front. It doesn't look like it will be too involved with only some fabrication involved. I also have the option of 3D printing a thermostat housing and getting it cast in alloy, similar to the intake manifold I made for the old pinto motor, which would make for a very neat solution. Shifting the thermostat to the front also gives me more space at the rear of the engine which will let me set it further rearwards, which is always welcome. 

@Transom thanks heaps for those. They should make the conversion much simpler and fully renewing all the gaskets will be good for piece of mind as to the condition of the engine. 

@Testament yeah I suppose I may have set my expectations a bit high, though to be fair, the old copper based stuff I was using used to work just fine with the TIG so go figure. 

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Have seen the rear water outlet custom made to come out the front - snuck out between the cambelt and tensioners 

i have flipped thermostat housing upside down and had alloy pipe welded to outlet routing pipe down drivers to lower rad - 

a lot depends on where everything else routes and then if you want heater or not - I have exhaust across the front to exit down passenger side and fuel and water on drivers side 

so many options - your build your choice - figuring this stuff out is the fun part - I have a cheapy standalone ems setup - if it gives me any hassle I will probably just throw money at a link atom - does mean buying specific sensors to run it too 

 

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2 minutes ago, Hurmeez said:

@yoeddynz@TransomI have been trying to think about how I'm going to handle the coolant system. If I use the stock setup I'm not sure how I can route the line from the back of the block to the radiator while still keeping it nicely packaged. How do most people handle it? I'm considering a custom design that deletes the pipe that runs between the cylinder banks and shifts the thermostat to the front. It doesn't look like it will be too involved with only some fabrication involved.

@Testament

The coolant system is easy. I just used some of the original pipes plus some other bits from other engines and tigged up a pipe that ran forwards tucked out of sight below the passenger side exhaust manifold. The thermostat inlet connects the rear end with a bit of hose and at the front end another bit of hose down to the radiator outlet.

59e51a284ed67_P1070394(640x480).jpg.a0dc7bcb1140a48b3a08098c99126c92.jpg

The heater inlet and outlets just connect up at the back easy as.

The alloy outlet at the front of the engine-  I chopped off the outlet pipe bit , flipped it over and tigged it back on so it directed to the drivers side of the radiator.  I bought a alloy Fenix brand Torana V8 radiator which is total overkill (and a bit too much added weight really)  However due to its coolant capacity I have got away without needing an overflow tank. The top header tank takes up any expansion.

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52 minutes ago, Transom said:

so many options - your build your choice - figuring this stuff out is the fun part - 

You raise a bloody good point... 

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Big thanks to @1963 AP5 for doing me a massive favor today. He went and scoped out an engine I found in a pick a part in Mangere to see if it was the much lusted after KL-ZE (which you can see here: https://oldschool.co.nz/index.php?/topic/40010-spotted-pickapart/&do=findComment&comment=1916027 ). It came back with some great answers but one or two questions as well. 

The engine apparently has the KL31-101 stamp on one of the heads which normally indicates that the engine is the KL-ZE (yay) but the cams are stamped with KL01 which is the ID for those used in the KL-DE. From what I have been able to figure out online, there were a few engines built with the KL-ZE bottom end (which is to say higher comp pistons and rods) and heads, but the lower spec cams. In my opinion, the higher compression pistons and better flowing heads still make this engine worth getting over the one I currently have (besides the fact that more engines are always better). I could always find the higher spec cams separately and swap them in, or instead, I was planning on getting the cams reground to a more aggressive profile anyway eventually, so I don't think having the wrong cams is that much of a drawback. What are your guys' thoughts? Those of you with KL-ZEs, do you know what the stamp marks on your cams are? Once I make a decision, I might be rounding up a posse to do a one day engine pull so let me know if you can help out. 

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