Hurmeez

Hurmeez' 1977 Mk2 Escort Estate

Recommended Posts

I thought it might be Claire but I wasn't sure. I have been reading her stuff on the miata forum but I didn't fully put the two together. I believe that when you use the mx5 box then the kl flywheel is the way to go but I talked to her directly on the CE facebook page and the rx flywheel was what she suggested for the rx box. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah interesting - well she knows her stuff 

Alex's viva has rx7 box and kl flywheel/clutch and slightly modded kl starter 

mine is hybrid rx7 bell onto mx5 box so has no flywheel spacer but it made the starter mount a pain 

the more standard bits you can fit the easier 

rx8 starter should tuck in better too kl solenoid hangs right out the side 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Making your own EFI system isn't cheap. If you're not willing to spend $1,250 on a gearbox then the cost of an EFI system might give you a stroke.

If you could find a way to retain the original EFI system and try and tack on some sort of external ignition controller system then you would probably be able to save a fair bit of money.

You'd be lucky to have change from $2,000 doing an EFI system - then again the donor would be able to provide all of the sensors, pipes and other stuff that you would need so it might not be quite so bad.

It's more the little things that aren't blatantly obvious which add up here and there and end up costing lots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the tips. I did have a look at some aftermarket ECU's yesterday and you're not wrong about the prices. I'm aware that going this way won't be as cheap as chucking the pinto in it but I'm looking forward to the learning curves I'm going to have to go through. I believe Alex used a megasquirt in his viva and that came out relatively cheap I think. In any case, it'll be fun to solve each problem as it comes up. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 20/08/2017 at 19:29, ajg193 said:

Making your own EFI system isn't cheap. If you're not willing to spend $1,250 on a gearbox then the cost of an EFI system might give you a stroke.

If you could find a way to retain the original EFI system and try and tack on some sort of external ignition controller system then you would probably be able to save a fair bit of money.

You'd be lucky to have change from $2,000 doing an EFI system - then again the donor would be able to provide all of the sensors, pipes and other stuff that you would need so it might not be quite so bad.

It's more the little things that aren't blatantly obvious which add up here and there and end up costing lots.

Nah I'd disagree. I made my ecu for $500 which included buying the better version of tunerstudio. My coil pack cost 40 bucks. The sensors and wires all came from the mazda I got the first engine from ( of which I sold the rest and made money on)

You'll need a Jimstim to check your ms2 build ( borrow one from someone as I did) and you'll want a wideband to tune with. I bought an innovate mtxl but cheaper options out there now.

Use a second hand fuel pump from a commodore.

So ignoring my time and a few silly little bits I'd say my fuel injection cost me less than a grand. 

Or build a speeduino ecu for $100 :-)

I'd been following this resto with much interest and was halfway through catching up then forgot it. Only caught up now. Fine engine choice. You'll love it. Proper good little, lightweight screamer of an engine and so smooth.

I think steve (transom) has covered most things really well so I can't add anything at this point.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just looking at stock RX8 flywheel images there is definitely some counter balancing going on there, not including the counterweight itself. Another option might be adapting an aftermarket flywheel but I haven't seen whether they're the same or not but there doesn't look like there's enough meat on the outside for them to be the same.

Definitely worth investigation before diving in spending though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah the rotor flywheel balance thing seems a hurdle unless you can get one machined and balanced back to neutral balance 

expand your search for v6 flywheels a bit - cronos lantis 323 v6 Telstar 1.8 2.0 2.3 k8 KF KJ KL  there are a lot odd models with the same block 

also google for bajawes he did a kl onto vw box and his site has dxf drawings of the kl bolt pattern will try to find the link for you later 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, ajg193 said:

You'd think pick a part would have an engine crane? The one in Christchurch does.

they do

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bro re the bellhousing adapter, get yourself a bit of perspecs and a red and blue or black sharpie, put perspecs against back of block, draw an outline in one colour, marking all holes etc, then put the opposite side against the bellhousing you want to use and do the same in the other colour, transfer to ally/steel and cut out desired shape and thickness, bolt up and work out shaft lengths etc, theres various ways to do plate, milled from thick ally is best, other ways incl cutting 2 plates out of steel and gusset together, I'm a tard at explaining shit,  its clear in my noggin lolz

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for your replies. On the flywheel front, I talked to Claire on the MX5 forums who has done this engine and gearbox combo in the past, and she said that she had no issues with the flywheel being unbalanced. Apparently on the RX-8 the counterweight is separate to the flywheel, whereas the flywheel off an RX7 (which fits the 8 and looks very similar) has it built in, leading to the confusion. Therefore I have decided to go this route with it. That means I won't need to pull the engine out of the 626 down in Auckland, though thanks heaps to @bigfoot for the generous offer.

On the adapter plate front, thank you @BigT105e for the suggestion and I totally see where you're coming from but I feel like I wouldn't be comfortable with the amount of accuracy that I would get from doing it that way. Instead, thanks again to @Transom, I found the CAD drawings of the KLZE bell housing bolt pattern. I also found a drawing of the RX-8 bell housing bolt pattern and set the two over each other to try designing my own plate. It's very much in the early stages so far but I'm still chipping away at it slowly. V6_engine_R14-page-001.thumb.jpg.ebfeb5d29c2cda1ed1fbfad532b2abba.jpg 

You can see there are some clashes with bolt positions but one on the top left is a locating dowel on the engine side so I might be able to get away with it. The lower one I'm not so sure about yet but I work on it some more and I'm sure I'll figure something out. My plan it to get it to where I think it will work, then cut it out of MDF on the school's lazer cutter to check it will fit, then take it to a CNC shop in town and get them to cut it out of some ally plate for me. It should work out to be cheaper than importing it by a long shot. 

I'm still open to your guys' thoughts so fire away. :) 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn you swanky gits with CAD and all that :-)   I must stop reading forums and start practicing fusion 360!!!!

The drawings above should work but I'd still be inclined to double check the measurements against your block and gearbox to make sure. Using measurements off the nerdnet is only as accurate as the fella who originally measured them.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's the plan Alex, I just have to get a hold of the gearbox and engine first. I bought the box last night and am just waiting on confirmation on when is the best time to pick it up. As for the engine, I have to pull the car in under the hoist but there's other cars in the way at the moment so much tetris must be played beforehand. I'm looking forward to it though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Hurmeez said:

Thanks everyone for your replies. On the flywheel front, I talked to Claire on the MX5 forums who has done this engine and gearbox combo in the past, and she said that she had no issues with the flywheel being unbalanced. Apparently on the RX-8 the counterweight is separate to the flywheel, whereas the flywheel off an RX7 (which fits the 8 and looks very similar) has it built in, leading to the confusion. 

This is a stock RX-8 flywheel apparently.  So yes, whilst the counterweight is removable there is still a significant balance effort going on there.

s-l1600.jpg

This is a 7 for comparison's sake

3718d1053973364-digital-camera-stock-fd-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it possible to get rebalanced/ checked for zero balance ?

look at steel for adapter plate as the bell housing to adapter holes will have to be threaded /tapped depending on how thick the adapter is alloy won't hold thread without steel inserts 

1 bolt above starter should line up and bolt right thru 

2 lowest holes on motor to adapter can be threaded and bolted up from the front - others all need to be counter sunk or stepped in to clear bell housing a lot depends on thickness of adapter 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah this^ I got away with 10mm alloy because I machined up flanged inserts out of steel. But for the smallish amount of weight I saved I reckon it would be easier to just make it from steel like steve did.

I don't like Claire's adaptors.  I think her plates are 20mm thick alloy which means hanging the flywheel out a long way to suit. This doesn't make good engineering sense. I dare say her alloy plate is not far off the weight of a parred down steel item.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suppose steel will be cheaper as well versus the alloy. Looking at the flywheel, I assume those lumps at 9, 11 and 1 oclock are what you mean by balancing efforts? Surely they'd be simple enough to turn off in a lathe wouldn't they? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah quite a bit cheaper.

 

I think Micheal is referring to the massive lump shown in the second photo.

You should look into a custom flywheel. Find the right engineering shop and it might not be as expensive as you think. My one was made in Auckland and is a chromoly item using the ring gear off a stock Mazda flywheel.  Well at least I was told it was chromoly... but really if its half decent steel and built correctly it would still be stronger than trying to machine a cast item as light.  I'd machine one up for myself if I had a lathe large enough.. I think even with my gap removed my Colchester doesn't have enough throw.  Then get it to a decent engine machine shop for some balancing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now