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Hurmeez' 1977 Mk2 Escort Estate


Hurmeez

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On 11/22/2017 at 07:44, Nominal said:

for the holes you can get/make machinists buttons

1

Yeah that is going to be my absolute final option if I can't get the CAD to work. I'll turn up some points that snugly slide into each hole and use them to transfer the positions to a plate and take the defeat. 

On 11/23/2017 at 06:24, BigT105e said:

Sheet of perspecs, put against block, mark hole locations with red sharpie, put opposing face against box and mark in blue/black sharpie-job done.

I know this is a perfectly good way to do it and I had considered it but I don't like how much potential there is to introduce inaccuracies. It would probably get them pretty close but in this case, I don't think close enough is good enough to make me happy. If it was off by a little bit it would introduce sideways loading on the input shaft bearings which would chew them out pretty quick since they're not designed for it at all. I also really enjoy working with CAD and this is a neat exercise to problem solve. 

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Go back to simple basic methods. Get it spot on. No room for error.. Your first motion support bearing will get trashed if its out even a small amount. 

So I have drawn some superbly beautiful and elegant drawings for you based roughly on how I did mine. I hope this doesn't come across as know it all. Hopefully others who read your discussion thread might find this info useful because it's much the same for all adaptor plates. 

Step one. Big plate of metal. I chose 10mm alloy and machined steel inserts for any threaded hole. However I think Steve's use of steel instead is simpler (and cheaper) with his adapter only weighing 2.5kg. Drill a tiny hole, say 1mm,  right through the centre thus giving a reference point on each side because you'll be marking each side separately. 

Action_memo20171124_151758_1.jpg

Step two.  Don't trust Internet measurements for bell housings. Do it yourself. Machine a tophat sleeve that fits tightly between the input/first motion shaft and the release bearing support tube. This will stop it wiggling about so you know your measurements will be correct each direction. Machine a hat that fits tightly over the end of the input shaft. Using a small centre drill bit, drill a tiny hole in the centre. 

Action_memo20171124_154158_1.jpg

Step three. Machine a cap for over the crank end (I can't remember now if there is a pilot bearing hole in there or not...if so then machine something to fit in that hole. Drill a centre hole in which ever you make. 

Action_memo20171124_152018_1.jpg

Step four. Spin the tops off some spare bolts in the lathe. Whilst still in the lathe drill a tiny hole.

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Step five/six. Measure things. A big pair of dividers is ideal. Measure centre out and between the bolts. 

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Step seven. Transfer your measurements. Double check.

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Drill and be happy. Once you've drilled them you can cut out the general shape and check it.

I guess if you're not sure do one on some three 3mm plate first. 

For my plate into the mazda engine several of the bolts that go into the block needed large counter sunk heads as they sat right under the bellhousing flange.  You need  to clamp the plate down hard on a mill or large drill press and centre it perfectly over the hole before you countersink. If not clamped it will move and it's the tapered head that has the final say in location. If its out it'll force things out or just not seat right. 

If it's all good save those measurements for your future reference!  I failed to do so and will have to go through all this again if I decide to V6 my wagon (so bloody tempting because they are such lush sounding wee engines) :-)

Alex

Edit: something to note.. Make sure you measure across a flat plain. Ie the centre point is the same height as the bolt head face. If there is any difference in height there will be a error introduced as you transfer the measurement onto the flat plate. 

Easy enough to raise the bolt or centre cap to make them level. 

Memo20171125_160033.jpg

 

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15 hours ago, ajg193 said:

Have you considered that the laser cutter may be inaccurate?

That did cross my mind but the holes for the gearbox side all line up perfectly so I'm pretty sure it must be pretty accurate. I used this drawing I found online for the measurements and they turned out dead on. 5a1934d40a138_RX8BellhousingBoltPattern2.thumb.png.c41e72edd655d6422a30473bd6991b67.png

If the cutter was out then I'd expect these holes to be wrong as well. 

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@yoeddynz Firstly allow me to compliment you on your artistic prowess. It is truly next level stuff. Secondly, thank you for being so thorough. I had considered doing something like this and if I decide to give up on the CAD then this was going to be my next step. Like I've said, I'd like to at least try to do it in CAD and CNC first, if only for the fun of using the CAD software. The advantage of having an accurate drawing also means I have the possibility of cutting a whole lot at a time if I like, in the off chance other people want to do a similar conversion. 
You mentioned that if I step it off with dividers as you did, I should note the measurement for each if I ever want to make another plate. My issue is how I would measure each distance to sufficient accuracy off the dividers? Would a set of Vernia calipers do the trick? If so, wouldn't I be better off to just use them in the first place rather than the dividers?  

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Problem with vernier calipers is they don't locate perfectly in the holes. 

However.. If you scribe the X marks onto the plate using dividers you could then measure them properly using calipers.. Certainly close enough to be accurate for the purpose. 

I'll add another thing I forgot to mention in my last post... 

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Oh and yeah.. If I had access to cnc measuring gear etc I'd do it that way too. However.. For what is a pretty simple few bits to make up plus the fact it will be as accurate as you can be bothered to make it this way is pretty easy for anyone who has access to a lathe.

Certainly do make records, as shall I, so we can help others out if they want to make an adaptor. 

 

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@yoeddynz that step-by-step was awesome :-D

ajg193 accuracy of the laser is absolutely not an issue- as an example that is slightly the same but different- our waterjet/laser guy can get holes down to .05mm tolerance.

Hurmeez if you go with CAD a good idea is to get test plates cut from very thin material (1.2 would be perfect). The material is cheap and cutting is very quick so its not that expensive and you can test that everything is PERFECT. You can also leave the center of the test adaptor in place but have a perfectly sized hole cut out to check alignment with your input shaft etc etc.

 

Also, I have used trustworthy milling machines with digital readouts for finding hole locations. You can place whatever item on the bed, clamp it down, put your 0,0 point anywhere you want and record the x y positions for each hole to get their relative positions and then put those numbers into your CAD program. 

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2 hours ago, flyingbrick said:

@yoeddynz that step-by-step was awesome :-D

ajg193 accuracy of the laser is absolutely not an issue- as an example that is slightly the same but different- our waterjet/laser guy can get holes down to .05mm tolerance.

Hurmeez if you go with CAD a good idea is to get test plates cut from very thin material (1.2 would be perfect). The material is cheap and cutting is very quick so its not that expensive and you can test that everything is PERFECT. You can also leave the center of the test adaptor in place but have a perfectly sized hole cut out to check alignment with your input shaft etc etc.

 

Also, I have used trustworthy milling machines with digital readouts for finding hole locations. You can place whatever item on the bed, clamp it down, put your 0,0 point anywhere you want and record the x y positions for each hole to get their relative positions and then put those numbers into your CAD program. 

Yeah I would generally agree that a laser cutter is pretty much perfectly accurate but you never know what condition/quality a school laser cutter is in - it could have been abused by a bunch of kids and be full of swarf from the lathe 2 metres away. It's not inconceivable that near the limits of its working area it could be slightly out of alignment.

But saying that, it is most likely just an issue with the original measurements or the guy writing the measurements onto the paper.

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yup! Get the right machine and you could do a one piece bellhousing and gearbox (better as you can then zero on the center of the input) or even stand a dummy engine block on the bed and go to the center of the crank/bearing jounals.

 

Can do all sorts of cool stuff when ya think outside the box a little :-D

 

Also good if you have a large scanner is either scanning in the components flat face OR scanning in a template/imprint of the part- then importing this image into CAD and scaling it to a known measurement (can even include a ruler in the scanned image to get the correct scale)

You'd be amazed how accurate you can get things like this.

No doubt manually marking out would be great though! just make sure that you aim for 100% accuracy every step of the way as theres quite a few steps to making an adaptor and a little variation at each step could have you out relatively far at the end. EG, use a drillpress, make sure its bed is square to the head, use punched centers and then pilot holes with new drillbits

Edit:

@ajg193 I missed the bit about the school laser cutter. Probably better doing it by hand LOL

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@ajg193 @flyingbrick I can totally see where you're coming from with the accuracy of the laser cutter but I can assure you it is in good condition. It's actually in a computer lab sort of area rather than the metalwork rooms and the electronics teacher treats the thing like his baby. No snotty nosed year nines are allowed near it without supervision, no food or drink in the room, etc, etc. The machines and tools in the engineering shop on the other hand, oh boy they are another matter entirely. If it was kept in there then you'd be absolutely right about its condition but I'm just lucky it's kept in the electronics department rather than the metalwork shop. 

I dropped the engine back at the workshop again today and the guy was really understanding of the whole situation. Hopefully he can sort it out for me soonish. I haven't been doing much actual work on the car for the last few days nor will I for the next few weeks. I'll explain everything very soon. I'm really excited to share what I been up to but we just have to get the last of it finished up this week.

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Man that boat is beautiful. I LOVE the two photos of the old and new boats being pulled out. I have a thing where i compare photos to see whats changed- i find it fascinating. EG, looks like the same letterbox (its done well!)

 

Also.. please explain how the truck trailer manages to pick the boat up and get it secured? I just cant work out how it does it!

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13 hours ago, flyingbrick said:

Man that boat is beautiful. I LOVE the two photos of the old and new boats being pulled out. I have a thing where i compare photos to see whats changed- i find it fascinating. EG, looks like the same letterbox (its done well!)

 

Also.. please explain how the truck trailer manages to pick the boat up and get it secured? I just cant work out how it does it!

We braced her against the building using the horizontal beams you can see in the second photo so we could remove the vertical supports from the cradle. This left her sitting on her keel alone. Then the truck reverses in with a squatting trailer that is shaped like a tuning fork with one chassis rail sitting on either side of the keel. Here's an artist's impression looking from below the whole set up. i6eiWdh.jpg Then three beams are slid under the keel between the rails and the whole trailer stands up on its airbags and takes the weight of the boat. 93eRiXC.jpgThen the four arms you can see in most of the photos raise up on hydraulic rams and take the load on their pads to stop her from tipping. Once it is all ratchet strapped down she doesn't move anywhere. Hopefully that explains it. Let me know if I can help explain anything else. 

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  • 4 months later...
15 minutes ago, Hurmeez said:

 

I gave all the welds a good clean up then coated it in a couple of good thick layers of Hammerite.   

I initially intended to use POR15 for this but the local shop has stopped supplying it for whatever reason and the guy said this was just as gooder so I figured it's better than nothing. 

 

 

POR15 sold the sole distribution/import rights(for AU and NZ I think) to apparently Bunnings, months ago, without telling the existing NZ distributor(PPC). AFAIK, he found out when he tried to do a stock order.

I haven't seen any sign of it at Bunnings. 

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