chasinthemirage Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Hey guys, I need some help regarding ignition timing on a 302. As I understand it the motor is a pre 1970 unit as the water pump outlet is on the left hand side when viewing the motor from the front. Apparently it should also have a 1 o'clock timing mark. This is where my problem starts, it doesn't appear to have a timing mark cast on the block but there are two threaded holes that look like they may be where a timing pointer should be bolted. What timing indicator should this motor have and what should the timing be set too? I have rekitted the carburetor which has helped somewhat but it is still running rich with a rough idle and won't accelerate without coughing/missing. I will change the fuel filter and recheck the carb but without correct ignition timing I'll just end up chasing my tail. Any help or advice would be appreciated as I haven't had a V8 Ford motor before and the Internet seems to provide more conflicting information than helpful answers. Cheers, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 First thing is 302 and 351 have different firing order. You can fit 351 cam's into 302 and vice versa so you will need to know what cam you have. Also figure out TDC with a screwdriver down the #1 spark plug hole. Once you have that then figure out what diameter damper you have and buy some MSD timing tape and fit it to the pulley. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yetchh Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 I'd go and talk to the boys at either Silvester or American auto parts and they'll point you in the right direction and give you the right pointer or information for your model, just take your engine number in with you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasinthemirage Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Is there any way to identify the cam without removing the water pump etc? I've only had the car a week and I've had enough of it already so I don't want to make any more work for myself than I have too. There are visible marks on the pulley itself so no drama there but I have nothing to line it up with on the block. Where would I find the engine number on the motor itself? Its an a Zephyr so the original tags are no use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Do you know how to find TDC using a screwdriver down the spark plug hole? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Mine is a 71, so prob bit different by the sounds of it, but engine # at back of block behind manifold, circled in red here... and timing plate front lower left on mine, no idea where it will be if water pump outlet on left sorry... They are a sweet wee motor once sorted, heaps of info online, I generally use 289 as a search term as the 302 went thru heaps of variations. Good luck... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasinthemirage Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Yep, I was planning on finding TDC using a screwdriver and then marking the block in relation to the TDC mark on the pulley. Not ideal I know but it might give me a better idea of what the timing is doing. What should the timing be? The internet seems to say six or 12 degrees but there's so many variations for the "302" that I don't know what's applicable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 A good baseline setup is 10-12 degrees with the vacuum disconnected or 30-32 degrees all in - (which is probably about 2500rpm) Depending on what fuel you run and how much compression you have, you may need to tweak it a little from there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 An older guy I work with runs a 302 with 289 heads. Reckons it was a pretty standard thing to do for gaining a few extra horsepower back in the day. Not related to your timing question but you may find it useful. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Gruntfuttock Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Yeah think mine is around 14 deg initial (with vacuum blocked) and 36 all up after initially setting at 10 deg to get running and tuning via vacuum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasinthemirage Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 Awesome thanks guys I will have a look at it tonight. The motor has the original carb and cast exhaust manifolds so I'm assuming (I know, I know) that it's a stocker. Don't really know what I'm looking at though so any info is helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yetchh Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Clevo's are 12deg so I'd imagine they'd be similar.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chasinthemirage Posted March 8, 2017 Author Share Posted March 8, 2017 Righto, so I had a fiddle with the motor tonight, even more confused than I was before. I pulled #1 plug and removed the rocker cover. Got #1 cylinder to TDC and the valves on the rock and found that the timing marks on the balancer are miles out. Marks on the balancer at 10 o'clock instead of 1 so I suspect the harmonic balancer might be off a later engine with the timing marks on the left instead of the right. I then removed the crank pulley and refitted it 45 degrees around, the slot on the pulley now lines up with one of the bolt holes on the block so I at least have a rough idea of where TDC is. Once I'd done that I then removed the distributor cap and found that the leads were fitted two positions out from where they are shown on the diagram. With the leads in the correct location as per the diagram I can't align the rotor with #1 contact without the dizzy fouling on the inlet manifold. What am I missing here as it seems weird that the dizzy hits the manifold? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Threeonthetree Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Pics of manifold pls. I have minimal experience with Ford V8s but I know Holden V8s have issues with aftermarket manifolds/distributors getting in the way of eachother. The other thing is you could simply use the range of rotation that is available on the distributor, pull all of the leads off, find which outlet on the cap the rotor sits closest to with #1 at TDC, use that as your #1 cylinder lead (even though it may have been a different cylinder before but that no longer matters now), refit the rest of the leads in the correct order on the cap to the correct cylinders and give it a crank. You will now have the distributor in roughly the correct place and some tweaking will allow you to get it spot on. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Neal is right. The sequence of the HT leads is more important from the picture than matching the location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Vapour Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 Do you.know if it's a Clevo or Windsor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOHC Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 once you get it running advancing the timing till it pings under load them back it off till it just goes away, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yetchh Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 11 hours ago, Threeonthetree said: Pics of manifold pls. I have minimal experience with Ford V8s but I know Holden V8s have issues with aftermarket manifolds/distributors getting in the way of eachother. The other thing is you could simply use the range of rotation that is available on the distributor, pull all of the leads off, find which outlet on the cap the rotor sits closest to with #1 at TDC, use that as your #1 cylinder lead (even though it may have been a different cylinder before but that no longer matters now), refit the rest of the leads in the correct order on the cap to the correct cylinders and give it a crank. You will now have the distributor in roughly the correct place and some tweaking will allow you to get it spot on. Yeah I'd yank the dizzy at tdc firing #1, set it so the rotor is on the middle of its travel clockwise/counter from any interference then bang the leads back on in the required order.. then at least you can advance/retard as needed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted March 8, 2017 Share Posted March 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Mr Vapour said: Do you.know if it's a Clevo or Windsor? It says Windsor in the thread title Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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