Chris' 79 Hz tonner

[chris r]

Poor thing got a hiding going up the Bombay hill. Had to pin it in third and throw my mechanical sympathy away for a little while 

 

[chris r]

Oh after baking off the brake adjuster the brakes have stopped being mega grabby, probably should have looked at them years ago 

Got a new distributor a while ago and installed it last night 

Love the nice Electrically conductive paint over everything. I swapped the bosch ignition module over as I don't trust the random one that came with the distributor. 

Was too lazy to clean it off so I ran a extra earth wire to the screw for the igniton module cover 

Gave it a oil change but we know what that looks like. 

Dropped it off to storage so I'll see it in another year 

[chris r]

I've got a lead on a healthy high compression 173 which barry said has some trick head work and was built for boost, might be a easier option than pulling and refreshing 202 and putting the cam etc in 

[chris r]

Pwoor fancy rare German crossflow alloy head 173 with mechanical injection (pump not currently fitted) 

Even bolts up to a 202 5 speed overdrive gearbox /s

Will need to figure out how to convert it from cable to hydraulic clutch 

https://www.rodshop.com.au/hydraulic-clutch-conversion-kit-for-hz-holdens

Saw that kit, only need half the kit 

https://malwoodauto.com.au/product/holden-hq-wb-hydraulic-clutch-pedal-assembly/

Or that but that's way out of budget 

 

[chris r]

Scored some spare injectors to seal the holes in the head in a attempt to have less schmutz enter the cylinders

Some sketchy engine crane rigging and a bit of swearing later and the 173 is on the stand, scored that nice alloy rocker cover with the 5 speed box 

Cam lobes had some surface rust on them so popped it out and will figure out what to do with it later. As it's a 5 cylinder do I get a four fifths race cam? Or is it still thee quarter race cam? 

Flipped it over to have a nosey at the oil pan in case it needs trimming (not that it will as a 173 will just bolt in place if a 202)

There's a bit of space between the oil pick-up tube and the bottom of the sump 

Popped a rod cap off out of curiosity 

Not bad but now I've seen it it'll get a bearing roll and the clearances will be perfect so I won't need to measure them. 

Dunno what those weird star symbols are /s

 

[chris r]

Just leaving this here so I can find it again. https://spareto.com/products/valeo-clutch-kit/835013

On of the Facebook om60x groups a  person had a recommendation for a sprinter single mass conversion clutch kit for a 'upgrade' if the dual mass shits the bed. 

Yes the dual mass flywheels are much smoother and less vibration but it's not a in a Mercedes any more,its a old Holden and it was never overly smooth or refined (and the manual musso have a solid flywheel but with a t5 behind them) 

I've sand blasted the rust off the flywheel and it looks less bad so it'll crash around the work van for a while, as I said earlier I'll be a cheapskate and just replace the pressure plate and friction disc and see how things go 

 

[chris r]

So after more digging and hours of cross referencing part numbers I'm 90% sure the gearbox I have needs a single mass flywheel. 

Good as its going to last forever, bad is it's pretty much rocking horse shit to find. 

I've found a new mb140 van /ssangyong van flywheel in Australia but it's about 1200 landed. I've emailed a place to see if there's a second hand one in nz but I'm not super hopeful 

Mercedes Lego is good that the inline engines from 80s- 90s ish are all the same bellhousing and flywheel bolt pattern. There are quite a few clutch options in various diameters but it appears they all are the same input shaft spline, just have to match the clutch to the flywheel 

[shrike]

44 minutes ago, chris r said:

So after more digging and hours of cross referencing part numbers I'm 90% sure the gearbox I have needs a single mass flywheel. 

Good as its going to last forever, bad is it's pretty much rocking horse shit to find. 

I've found a new mb140 van /ssangyong van flywheel in Australia but it's about 1200 landed. I've emailed a place to see if there's a second hand one in nz but I'm not super hopeful 

Mercedes Lego is good that the inline engines from 80s- 90s ish are all the same bellhousing and flywheel bolt pattern. There are quite a few clutch options in various diameters but it appears they all are the same input shaft spline, just have to match the clutch to the flywheel 

If you check the Wreckers in Melbourne I can see if I can go grab one for you, I think ive still got luggage allowance for when I fly over to Wellington on the 16th or I can get a freight quote.

Just need to know what im grabbing

Jollys you pull as an example but there is a pickapart here too

 

 

[CaMpylobacter]

tried spareto?

[chris r]

2 hours ago, shrike said:

If you check the Wreckers in Melbourne I can see if I can go grab one for you, I think ive still got luggage allowance for when I fly over to Wellington on the 16th or I can get a freight quote.

Just need to know what im grabbing

Jollys you pull as an example but there is a pickapart here too

 

 

Thanks will have a look, I've found a second hand listing in Germany with a weight of 15kg so may not be suitcase friendly. From what I've seen everything sprinter is dual mass. Maybe the early Tn/T1 vans would have a single mass but they are most likely gone by now 

1 hour ago, CaMpylobacter said:

tried spareto?

That was my first port of call. 

After market makes heaps of replacement dual mass flywheels. Or valeo do a single mass conversion flywheel kit but that matches the dual mass dimensions so I'd need to space the bellhousing for that to work. 

From what I've found and other forum posts in a similar position it seems genuine new or used merc (or ssangyong/mercedes van thing) is the option for the single mass 

 

The irony is the first gearbox I got was for a dual mass but had no speedo cable output so I would have had to muck around with sensors and controllers which may have ended up cheaper than finding a unicorn poo flywheel 

[shrike]

@chris r I wonder what the cost of a custom flywheel would be?

https://www.precisionengltd.co.nz I believe can do them, and I think when I last spoke with Barry at MRP he could also get custom ones made.

[chris r]

3 hours ago, shrike said:

@chris r I wonder what the cost of a custom flywheel would be?

https://www.precisionengltd.co.nz I believe can do them, and I think when I last spoke with Barry at MRP he could also get custom ones made.

I did have that thought tbh, But with my limited accurate measuring tools and even more limited measuring abilities I think that'd be a painful exercise for all involved

The ssangyong/mercedes van flywheel looks more appealing than the mercedes option. Both appear to be the smaller 8.5" clutch but at this point any clutch will do (and rock auto have a clutch kit to suit 190 for $200 at the moment)

and according to this random german site (yes I'm clutching at straws) it is a cross refrence to the merc flywheel

 

[HumberSS]

Mercworx in tokaroa? 

[chris r]

11 minutes ago, HumberSS said:

Mercworx in tokaroa? 

I've already emailed them. Been busy with work so haven't had a chance to call 

[chris r]

Went out to the carport and had a measure /look 

Assuming the ring gear needs to be in the same position in auto and manual I used it as a reference point 

 

About 6mm of ring gear poking out past the bellhousing face. 

Assembled the dual mass (om606?) flywheel and clutch. Pushed it in and held it by hand 

The ring gear is fully exposed past the edge of the bell. 

If my maths is mathing I should have 6mm of ring gear inside the gearbox bellhousing and I don't have that with the dual mass.

How much will a pressure plate deflect without reducing clamping force? 

And how much throw will it need to release? 

My gut feeling is that the dual mass sticks out too much (atleast 6mm)

Interestingly the spare om662 musso motor I have has a pilot bearing in the crank. The dual mass has the pilot bearing in the flywheel. That tells me that there is a musso single mass flywheel attached to a turbo musso/om662 so I'm looking for the poop or two unicorns now so it's easier right? 

 

 

[shrike]

Could you machine 6mm off the flywheel?

[chris r]

2 hours ago, shrike said:

Could you machine 6mm off the flywheel?

Maybe my gut feeling is it may need more than 6mm taken off as the pressure plate fingers are currently rammed against the release Bearing which is pushed against the gearbox casing. I'm thinking it'll want a tiny bit of free space and not be bound up all the time 

Ideally the current dual mass needs to be replaced as it's been used and can't be machined. that then means I could get a conversion flywheel/clutch kit but it would be a gamble if that would have enough material to machine off to work with this gearbox.

The whole dual to single mass conversion kit ends up being a similar cost landed to the unicorn poo flywheel and I'd have to get it machined /hope like fuck it could be machined. So for practically the same money I may as well just get the (hopefully) correct single mass flywheel off the bat 

[chris r]

So in typical me fashion I was over thinking things and focusing on a detail that's important but not that important. 

Ring gear is important but I am comparing a auto ssangyong Btr flex plate to a Mercedes manual dual mass so things may not be identical there. 

I had a brainwave on the way home from work. 

No one likes a floppy unsupported shaft. A input shaft would appreciate a pilot bearing, a pilot bearing in the correct place. 

And this is my picture. 

The gearbag input shaft ends a few mm past the face of the bellhousing. 

The face of the crank is recessed from the face of bellhousing 

So therefore the single mass (with pilot bearing in the crank) will result in a floppy unsupported shaft. 

The dual mass has its own pilot bearing inside. Here's some pics of the conversion flywheel showing the pilot bearing being in the flywheel 

Which means me being 90%  sure the gearbag I've got is single mass spec was wrong. 

That's also excellent news as I'm not hunting for rocking horse poo flywheels, the sprinter conversion kits use the larger clutch disc.

The valeo conversion kits have been reported to hold up to 400 internet horsepower.

In keeping with the every expense spared theme from the musso I'll be ordering the cheapest alternative kit I can find. Even if I manage to double the om662 stock output it's only half what the 606 people are pushing through the valeo kits so it'll do the job fine 

Yes dual mass is smoother but it's a 46 year old work Ute and has a old Holden red pushrod lump in it which isn't exactly the pinnical of smooth refined motoring 

[chris r]

Not quite overnight parts from Japan but about a week from Latvia 

Conversion clutch kit and all the shifter bushes and clips, new release Bearing and slave cylinder. Honda genuine packaging feels a bit 'nicer' with its Honda branded bags VS Mercedes genuine in a generic plastic bag 

The clutch kit was a expensive gamble as it's designed for the newer common rail diesels and I've just seen a bunch of info saying they should work. 

First moment of truth /relief. Yes the plate fits. Thank you Mercedes for not changing the input shaft spline for 30 odd years of gearboxes 

Old om606 clutch disc VS the new one 

More bigger is more better right? 

[chris r]

According to the internet's the crank might need to be ground or the flywheel shaved a bit to fit. 

Quick eyeball and dirty calliper measurements say that the holes to locate the flywheel onto the crank are both the same depth and diameter.

My two cents is the biggest difference in the flywheels will be the teeth for the crank sensor pick-up but as I have a tach terminal on the alternator and a mechanical pump I dngaf and have no use for them 

Sat the flywheels back to back and the bolt holes line up and ring gear is the same diameter and tooth count by eye 

Sitting on the bench the ring gear don't quite line up but that's not a fair comparison as I need to measure up with it bolted to the crank as the offset is slightly different. 

That money could have been spent on the Honda gearbox and towards a dyno tune but shiny new parts are exciting and ordering parts is about all I'm capable of doing at the moment