azzurro's 1966 FIAT Duamilatrecento Familiare (2300 Wagon)

[azzurro]

This thing popped up on Trade Me on Friday afternoon, and by Saturday morning id had a good look and pressed buy now (including delivery).

I havnt got it quite yet so fingers crossed i dont get bumped by a silly offer as there were 5 questions already and 3 other people coming that day.

 

Dude is a bit of a character and has plenty of very cool cars but hes moving so (some of)  it gots to go.

 

Its mostly complete, just missing one of two chrome strips on one door, and the tail lift glass is perspex. It also has a broken tail light but i think the more common sedan ones will fit .

 

It has rust of course, but nowhere near as much as i would have thought, but where it was stored was pretty damp and the worst is around the roof edge, and one hole in the drivers floor/sill from a bump from underneath i think. All the doors, panels and tail gate etc is really good and the rego is on hold.

 

Engine hasnt run for years, and is a 2300cc inline six with a single dual throat weber that produced a claimed 80kW @ 5300 rpm and 184Nm @ 3000 rpm when new.

 

Some youtubing of 2300S Coupes show that the  engine definitely has some potential!

 

Also has bench seats, 4 speed column change and patina.

 

Plan is to fix the rust, repaint the roof, clear coat the rest, lower and roll.

 

If plan A of recommissioning the existing driveline doesn't work out, i'm open to something silly just so as long as its I6.

 

Cars history (as i understand it) is that its a low milage car, and one of only a few (2-5) RHD models in NZ. Sign writing (and blue repaint over burgundy) was for Nautilus Marine of Napier, after which it was in a big private collection there, then bought buy the current owner to do up and turn into a caravan towing cruiser, but over taken by too many other projects.

 

Pics below are from trade me:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Discuss:  //oldschool.co.nz/index.php?/topic/49262-azzurros-1966-fiat-duemilatrecento-familiare-discussione/

[azzurro]

Testament went and checked it out back in 2009.

 

Im pretty sure its not moved in that time, and 5 long years in that leaky car port hasnt done it any favours but its hopefully still savable and looks pretty much the same just mouldier.

 

Photos shamelessly stolen from Toms thread on T124, unsure of the photographer:

 

 

 

rust hole in floor - this is the only 'major' rust I saw - plenty of minor stuff to keep me busy for a while including the roof.

 

 

 

 

room for a double DIN dvd player?

[azzurro]

[azzurro]

The dudes son dropped it off with the family tow truck this morning. I had the day off so right dug in.

 

bleugh

 

 

 

rust on the roof edge is actually not that bad put my finger through that spot above it tho

 

 

 

 

 

engines all there, but sump has some big flatspots in it so may whip that off to check the oil pump is ok before trying to start it up.

 

 

 

1.5 sets of 'old' sparks from the 125 to replace the manky old champions that were just sitting in the holes. one has some gak (dried crc or some suck) in the thread so i need a tap to get a couple started - dont want to rush it and cross thread a spark plug. Filled the holes while i hosed it off anyway.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its both better and worse than i thought. Smells like rat piss tho, so ill pull the interior out tomorrow, It all needs to come out to fix the floor anyway and to get the wet sound deadening off.

 

So I started on the boot, lots of wax oyl already there

 

Still needs couple patches in the spare wheel well, and some work around the tail gate like any old wagon should.

 

 

 

Gave the outside about 3 washes and its looking much cleaner.

 

Front brakes are not seized and have what look like new pads (can see stamped writing on the backing and pad material, and unworn but surface rusty discs. Noice.

 

Hope the rears are just as good.

 

Also, some of the rear bumper is not rustly

 

YAY

[azzurro]

Have continued to strip this thing down, unfortunately most of the surprises have not been good ones. Not too many photos tho.

 

All the interior, bumpers and lights are off, and a coat of rust kill on the floor, and and ive got the tailgate off and dissasembled and a tarp over the back end- will sort out a few holes to get into the swing of things and see how we go from there.

I took a load of interior parts etc up to the storage unit just before, so i will be able to get it into the garage and start filling holes.

 

Tidied up all the front chrome and lights so they are ready to go back on, pretty happy with how everything cleaned up

 

Put new tyres on the original rims but thought id better have a motivational first:

 

Check out where the hubs are presently thats actually the present ride hight, so a looong way to go yet!

 

And in other news, the Ive been put in touch with a guy in wellington with a Wagon and he has pretty much everything I think i might need as far as non-consumable parts go, might even be able to wrangle a parts (sedan) car if its not just as bad in all the places i need rust cuts. 

 

 

[azzurro]

filled my first few holes, only 999 to go...

 

 

bit of a bugger to weld due to all the fish oil and/or waxoyl all through it but its in good nick for a 50 year old tail gate so glad its in there.

 

Also my plan to 'keep the patina' got overridden (on this panel) by my inability to stop picking scabs.

 

woops!

[azzurro]

for the last few weeks i have been spending an hour or so a night faffing around with this rusty POS, inlcuding getting into the garage (meaning the 125 is outside in the weather )

 

I have done a bit more welding on the front corner around the headlight - i gave up on that for now as I got a lead about a parts car - more on that later.

 

So i decided to concentrate on the engine and see if i can get it to go.

So far ive just been pulling bits off for inspection, cleaning them up and putting them back on.

Crossed off the list so far:

- Starter solenoid was well siezed, but one from my 125 parts stash fitted perfect - woot spun up on the bench so all g i hope.

 

- radiator out - its stuffed - i have a RX2/3/4 radiator that is a wee bit wide for the 125 that will probably go back in its place

- water pump off - also pooped, will probably run an electric fan like the 125 rather than the electromagnetic factory lump, but i still need a new waterpump (~$100 US on ebay)

- generator tidied up - no reason it wont work as far as i can tell - easy to put a later model one on if required.

- distributor tidied up, feed up all the bits and pieces, again looks good, even the points were unpitted (have some NOS ones spare already)

- carburettor  cleaned out - all jets are as per factory, but overall seems pretty smallish for a larger engine, but IDK. (Weber DCD 23/25)

A bit of crap in there but cleaned up nice

 

 

- timing cover/gear - chain seems really loose

- new kits inlcuding both pulleys  are around $100 US on Ebay

 

like 20mm of slack

 

gouging on the inside of the cover also suggests excessive movement

 

Getting that off meant i could have a look into the sump and also get a spanner on the crank nose nut, and engine is definitly not seized (yay) and in fact feels a bit too easy to turn with the plugs in (boo)-

 

cant see anything untoward, but the centrifugal oil 'filter' on the crank nose was full of dried up silvery deposits that were also magnetic

 

hopefully its all from the timing chain but i suspect not.

 

Will try start it up this weekend. Given the brakes dont work and clutch pedal is stuck on the floor i wont be driving it but making a good racket will be exciting.

[azzurro]

And last weekend i took a trip to wellington to check out a 2300 sedan parts car for rust cut purposes.

 

The car is owned by well known wellington 2300 nut Mark, and he has a really nice '65 wagon, the parts car i went to check out, another 'good' parts sedan and a '65 sedan in the body shop.

 

65 Wagon

'my' Parts sedan

 

I also managed to get a few bits off him to take home including

- spare indicator/park lights (for the terminals)

- spare dash
- column indicator/lights switch (which i broke when i got it home!)
- tail light lens
- fuse box cover
- and some other small bits and bobs

 

unfortunately the parts car is pretty poked in much the same places as mine but may be useful for quite a few random bits. Mark is hanging onto it in case he needs any bits for the sedan in the shop, when it comes out early next year, and i cant use it or collect it at the mo anyway, so it worked out well. Nice to have a good contact anyway.

 

I also picked up some 130 rims from another guy on the way back, so will tidy them up and chuck them on soon.

 

heres a pic of a 2300 sedan with some on (and a 16V Turbo engine)

 

[azzurro]

i have been plugging away at bits and pieces on this, and last weekend cleared two! engines from my tiny shed with the help of EURON8

- the 125s 1608 and 4 speed box, and the croma turbo engine which was on the engine stand. Now there is way more room to move (some room to move!)

 

We also tried to fire the engine up as id run out of things to take off, and put back on but only got a few mild coughs - the oil pressure light did go out from cranking so thats good (pump is not broken from dent in sump)

 

So i think no-start condition is a combo of

- the fuel being a bit stale (i drained the 2300 tank into the mower can which was being gravity fed into the fuel pump), so have some fresh 98 to try (hoping its old gas!).

- maybe low compression - will borrow my neighbours compresion tester to see about that, and 

- Also the voltage at the coil was a couple volts lower than the battery so may jumper that too, but sparks looked good and blue.

 

I also closed up the last bits on the front corner just before as the Wellington parts car was going to be no help here. (ive already done about 6 much simpler patches on the wing and front valance which you can just make out)

 

Quite satisfying making these complex bits and getting them to fit given my tools are one small vice, some hammers and gilbow shears, and the all important cereal box for CAD.

 

 

 

only 992 holes to go.

[azzurro]

Go tthe mrs to give me ahand to crank this over today,

 

I got her to write down the compression tests (before it started)

Not so good on 3 and 4!

 

However ITS ALIVE!

 

https://youtu.be/HCPhc2MetpI

 

https://youtu.be/HCPhc2MetpI

 

Mrs actually got it going first, shes stoked, lol, this my my first start.

 

fresh fuel including filling the carb bowl got it running so guess the fuel pump is borked or has an air lock

 

I forget to test the compression again afterwards but it started & revved well enough so im guessing it was a gummed up valve or something.

 

Stocked as that mean i can get it built up with the existing running gear.

Wont be going too far before the engine comes out, for a freshen up but at least it can theoertically move itself around till then!

 

Once it has brakes and a working clutch...

[azzurro]

I got the Cromodora CD9's cleaned up - i only had black etch primer, and i liked the look so i went with a matty b top coat as well.

 

 

 

wound the torsion bars down as far as the adjusters would allow, need a 44mm socket to get the retainer nut off the front of them to take them out and rotate them a spline - surprsing amount of adjustment with just the nut tho.

 

right rear caught on the handbrake thingee, enven tho the left has about 5mm clearance, so unsure what to do about that, will worry about it later as its on the 'against the wall side' for now.

 

pretty happy with how it panned out:

 

[azzurro]

and also sorted out the bonnet.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[azzurro]

bit more rust, working my may way around the car, front left sill and fender.

 

yum!

 

 

take that! No wonder it rusted, there are at least 5 or 6 overlapping seams all facing the back of the wheel!

I will slop some seam sealer on and plenty of underseal and is should be good for another 50 years.

 

---

 

pretty happy with how this sill cover turned out

 

i reused the door seam part, just replaced the bit below the door, the jacking point helped to keep stuff lined up

 

 

on and off to check fitment and tweak at least once...

 

ready to weld on

 

noice

 

and the aim of the game, more rusty bits for the scrap pile

 

have another small section aft of this to whip off ( ayou can see my markings in the last image in the gif (and ill be onto the boot area, the rest of the sill and rear wheel arch is fine.

 

[azzurro]

in this update, more rust...

 

Got sick of sanding bog on the fender and sill, so put the front/side down rolled her forwards a bit and jacked up the back.

RH side rear wheel has a pool of diff oil on it, so i guess the axle seals are pooped. Oh well more parts for the list.

 

anyway, onto the oxide.

 

I fixed one tiny wee hole behind the gravel plate at the rear of the sill/front of the rear arch, but the rest of the sill was really good.

 

So onto the Left boot well.

 

a BIG cut to start with

 

 

i cut the lot off as the inner skin is pooped as well, but mainly so i could also access the 'roof' of the inner skin.

 

 

before i cut any more out i remade the outer skin while i had prlenty of datums

 

 

this is why it rusts: damp and crud in the boot get trapped between the skins - this side also has three openings all behind the wheel so of course it was full up to the top with 50 years worth of road gunk.
- one for the bumper mount (the skins were not spotted together here - helpful as i ca reuse the indent)
- one for the petrol flap drain pipe and
- one moreanother for the rear lights loom

 

keep on digging

 

corner of the rear bumper/valance was a bit frilly too

 

and start putting bits back in, pretty happy how that square bump lined up, shame about the welds

 

 

I have also now removed the remains of the old well floor/roof of the inner skin and remade it so the outer iwill have a single skin by extending the floor straight accross to the inside of the outer skin (instead of leaving a small gap to collect shite) so there is one less rust trap.

 

Will also save quite a bit of material and save me from remaking such a complex piece that cant be seen but it needs some grindering first so will fit that up later in the week.

 

hard part will be tacking the skin on without it warping to heck. lucky the bumper will cover most of it

 

Ive saved all the CAD templates for when i get to the other side - its not as bad but may as well get the same treatement when i make it around there.

[azzurro]

Woops missed this post from September 22

 

***

 

new parts oooohh

 

124/125 brake master - is 3/4" not 2300 7/8" but good enough to get rolling (probably never change it but happy to deal with slightly more pedal travel than spend $400 + shipping more).

2 out of 3 brake hoses - 2nd of the front hoses is on back order - car has only 3 - two at the front and a flexi from the body to diff

clutch slave (will use a lada master - the 2300 cylinders are 'handed' and the RHD ones are NLA, lada ones are the same as the LHD ones and will just mount on an angle)

 

Fuel pump (already fitted)

engine mounts (125 style)

timing chain kit

 

 

I also have an order for a few bis from an overseas vendor, but its still 'processing',

 

and also trying to order a cheap ($30 euro) 125p/1500 waterpump off ebay (intead of paying 300 euro for the exact same thing listed as a 2300 one) seems to be a massive problem for the 'global shipping programme'.

 

anyway thats a wee bit closer to being able to move under its own power. assuming the cluch itselt isnt busted, the gearbox works and the brake pistons are not seized

[azzurro]

adding some more bits to the new parts stash

 

 

- diff axle seals

- cheap looking dizzy rotor and NOS MM points (caps seem to go for around $100!)

- random gaskets & seals

- rocker shaft things (were really cheap so bunged them in an order from an ebay seller)

- driveshaft guibo (love that word)

- 125P/FSO water pump (they run a 124/125 style pulley boss instead of the giant and heavy electro magnetic - will run the same set up as my 125 with the old sensors running an electric fan relay) - was also only 20 quid + free shipping to youshop

- cortina/escort thermostat from repco

thats not really the end of it tho - I grabbed a clutch master from EURON8 to try out as apparrently they work fine on the 'lesser' models in this family but on this car it needs to be short and stubby to fit in behind the brake booster.

 

this is as compared to the lada one so will have to keep looking.

Having the mounting holes in the wrong place will also put the fluid inlet hard against the booster mount too, and on these they are 'handed' and RHD ones are NLA

 

 

They do have the same 19.05mm bore as many other things inlcuding the lada, so rebuild kits or a rebore shouldnt be that hard to do.

 

[azzurro]

also been working on the rear end,

 

Got the rear quarter fillered up - the paint is a great match for Heritage Blue in a can from bunnings, ha

 

 

 

In between bog/sand/bog/sand/bog/sand repeat i dug some holes

 

 

 

the boot seal area was quite pooped too, but is mostly sorted apart from the RH corners - im leaving that till i turn the car around to do the other side.

 

I had a sheet metal place fold up the tight '[' profile shape that i needed for the boot seal carrier part - i asked for a 1200 length, but they folded it up at 2600 - Im not even mad, the nicely bended leftovers has already come in handy, for the roof gutter which i replaced on the edge of the roof and there is still quite a lot left

 

 

pretty happy with how the coumpond roof curve sections can out too.

 

run out of welding gas at this point, but ive pretty much finished this whole side, as well as 3/4 of front and rear sections and the bonnet and boot.

 

Have filled a few holes in the roof too, but reaaly should pull the headlining to do it properly/no fires/no holes, but EVERYTHING needs to come out to do that and its in really good nick and im sure ill wreck it either getting it out or tying to put it back in.

 

Next job is same again but on the other side, but Im going to take a bit of a break from the bodywork and pull the engine and box to tidy up next.

 

I need to turn the car around (nose in) to finish welding the other side and pushing it up and down my steep drive will be a real ball ache, so i think driving it will be way more satisfying.

[azzurro]

I dug the engine and box out of the hole today.

 

Manual says box out first, so thats what i did

 

50 years of leaky gearbox

 

sorted with 20 minutes of waterblaster

 

engine bay ready for stripping

 

looks quite bad but its not really, the RH side paint has been affected by leaky batteries, + brake and clutch fluid which has lifted the paint but not rusted very much at all. In contrast the LH side is very good.

 

I thought the gearbox might have been stuffed, as I had not been able to get the box into gear since ive had the car, but once the box was removed it went into gear fine - ive traced the issue to one of the linkages being seized on its shaft, so thats easily sorted and i will be able to keep the column change.

 

I had been investigating, and i think a Lada 5 speed box could work, but thats one less faff around i dont need to do.

 

In other news i have managed to not only find but purchase a parts 2300 wagon and I will collect it some time in the next couple of weeks 

 

That means i will have in my possession 20% of all the 2300 wagons that ever existed in new zealand.

 

[azzurro]

extra day off for Labour Day today, put to good use busting my ass in the shed for way less than minimum wage

 

phosphoric acid rust eater has done its thing its magical stuff, rinse/wipe, then a coat of rust converter to stop it coming back, and then ready for primer

 

set up the paint gun on the underside of the bonnet - its been a while!

 

i had to put a patch in the battery tray (you might be able to spot it as its smooth) and the rear of the RH headlight bucket, fix up all the masking i missed/had come loose and then:

first coat of primer! yay - looks way better already

[azzurro]

And in between coats and stuff i was also doing this:

 

pulled the oil pan off, 'baffle' destructivelly removed, the gas torch thing to soften it up and plenty of bashing, tap the baffle back into shape, tack the baffle back in, fill the holes  and here is the end product - one not quite so dented (and painted) oil pan) ready to go back on

 

The pink bits under the pan have also been investigated:

 

FIAT 2300, ORLY? It has HUGE counterweight lumps and surprisingly clean inside, oil pump screen was nice and clear.

 

Cam looks ok, piston skirts also look good - they have machined 'ribs' on them that are not worn at all and the bore itself feels good - i coundnt feel any difference with a finger nail between where the skirt and 'high' side (which does not travel to the base of the bore) travels

 

thrust bearings aew good, and took a random bearing cap off to have a gork, big end bearing looks brand new!

 

main bearing not so much, but still pretty good

all in all, pretty happy with that - much better that i could have hoped - i have not got a gasket set, nor do i have 180Euro for one, so i dont think ill be pulling the head.

 

Think i will leave it at that for know, other than the externals and adjustments and stuff and worry about freshening up the engine once its on the road (if required!)