EFI_LC

EFI_LC's Starezza - KP60/Altezza BEAMS

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//oldschool.co.nz/index.php?/topic/46241-efi-lcs-starezza-kp60altezza-engine/

 

Well I have been trying to find information on the model engine I have and in particular the ECU.

I have found a bit of info on the wiring which is useful but I may be missing some sensors, depends if I can sort them or source them I guess.

 

Can anyone help identify if the ECU I have can be wired up to run or is the anit-theft version that requires the original ignition and key?

 

IMG_83881024x683_zps10c0bd17.jpg

 

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as far as i know there wasnt any anti theft ,or needed dash or key to make the std ecu work .the biggest problem thou was the traction and brake set up ,that has 2 tps set ups

 

ps should change it 2 star-tezza

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Thanks for the advice, I am thinking of using an after market computer either to replace or to intercept the signals but haven't decided yet

So with the 2 tps, is that one on the accelerator pedal and one on the engine, do they need to relate position? just wondering if I could piggyback off the one sensor?

 

What sort of problems does the traction sensor do and how does it work, could I send a permanent signal to it that it had traction?

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It's got an electronic throttle body, when you pull the cable it only moves the throttle plate 45 degrees.

 

Anything above that is controlled by the ECU and whether it 'lets' you have full throttle etc.

 

So it's got a TPS that measures what you're wanting to do, and then a TPS on the other side that the motor uses to determine where the throttle plate actually is.

 

It works well enough but if you're going to an aftermarket ECU best to just bin all of that junk and turn it into a normal cable pull throttle body.

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It's got an electronic throttle body, when you pull the cable it only moves the throttle plate 45 degrees.

 

Anything above that is controlled by the ECU and whether it 'lets' you have full throttle etc.

 

So it's got a TPS that measures what you're wanting to do, and then a TPS on the other side that the motor uses to determine where the throttle plate actually is.

 

It works well enough but if you're going to an aftermarket ECU best to just bin all of that junk and turn it into a normal cable pull throttle body.

Sounds like the old carb vacuum secondary except smarter, must be great for economy if i wanted economy ;)

An aftermarket computer is an expense I could do without until later as i need some cash to spend on a couple of big needs

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It's not a drama to keep it, because you'll already have the loom which plugs all that stuff into the ECU already.

 

I've got mine converted to 100% cable pull, and it makes the throttle a bit jerky at cruising because it's a big throttle body and a small % change in opening lets in a big amount of air.

 

So the idea with the electronic one is that it can have a non linear opening rate to give a more linear change in power/air/whatever with a big throttle body.

 

Prior to electronic throttle bodies, for anything with a big throttle area like 20v motors or 1UZs they would have a dual staged linkage thing which would open the throttle non linear with cable pull. If that makes sense.

 

I think it can also get commands from the ABS/traction control ECU to tell it to close the throttle a bit etc, but I dont think that will matter if you've got none of that stuff hooked up anyway.

 

It should be easy enough to setup anyway, if you're chasing down any niggles with electronics etc then the easiest way to figure out what's going on is to buy a cheap bluetooth OBD2 thingy and download the Torque App onto your phone/tablet.

 

So you can see sensor data etc in real time based on what the ECU thinks is happening, and it can also show you a list of error codes etc if it thinks its missing any bits.

 

My ECU throws 3 'soft' error codes because it's an ECU from a car that came with auto but it's not seeing any response from the shift solenoids. But they arent codes which stop the motor from working and it doesnt make the CEL flash either so it's no drama.

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Sweet, that's music to my ears Roman. I may have to work out how to rig an OBD-2 into the loom I guess its only a half dozen or so wires needed I hope.

The throttle response shouldn't matter to me, I might have to follow your lead on this.

 

After I get the car running I still need to fix the suspension, install a LSD and build a trailer before I start on the engine and clutch so the least I need to do at this stage the better.

Today I got the gearbox mounts made and welded in, I find the building of the car easier than the electronics.

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Yeah OBD2 setup is easy, cant remember the specifics but when you get to that part let me know and I'll dig up some info.

 

Just need the signal from the SIL pin from the ECU (this blurts out the info), 12v and an earth to get it working.

 

I hate electronics too, I get a cold sweat when I see a big wiring loom!

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I have finished 90% of the welding and modifying apart from tidying up some stuff, filling holes and painting.

Wiring and electrics is the one that has me a bit concerned.

 

Looks like it's time to start finding parts.

 

I need:

Radiator

Electric fan/s

Hoses.

Surge Tank

Oil catch can

Fuel pump

Battery box & clamps

Shorten Driveshaft & make it fit my diff

Make a 2-1 exhaust & flange to mount to the factory extractors

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Hi 

 

Good to see you making great progress!

 

I thought i would post some links which may be useful to you from someone who has already done this conversion (Gen 5 Beams into a KP61 Starlet).

 

They were done by Quintin, admin on the club-k forums (http://www.club-k.co.nz/), I now own the car in question.

 

This is the original build thread (you need to be a paid member to view)

http://www.club-k.co.nz/Forums/viewthread.php?tid=24316

 

Here is a condensed version that is publicly available.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~quibel/Starlet2c.htm

 

They include wiring diagrams for connecting the beams to the starlet loom etc. (if any of the links don't work pm with your email and i can send the files directly)

 

Here's a recent video of the car at Ruapuna (more on my channel)

 

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Awesome info, I will be looking at this carefully. Thanks mate.

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suggest s1 rx7 or Rx3 front springs from mr king will be options if you still run the factory spring seat lenghts diameters and positions in the rear.

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your making some good progress with this, be hooning in no time!

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Congrats on getting it going!

 

Your making great progress.

 

I have a couple of OBD2 readers set up to read the altezza ecu (using android app), but I haven't been able to get them to work on my car (couple of cut obd2 wires may be the issue, or the readers themselves) but theoretically they should work on a good loom. Your welcome to try them, just send me a pm if your interested.

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Congrats on getting it going!

 

Your making great progress.

 

I have a couple of OBD2 readers set up to read the altezza ecu (using android app), but I haven't been able to get them to work on my car (couple of cut obd2 wires may be the issue, or the readers themselves) but theoretically they should work on a good loom. Your welcome to try them, just send me a pm if your interested.

Thanks to everyone that helped here, it actually turned out straight forward to to hook it up but only if you work out the wiring from the various diagrams.

My mate who wired it said he couldn't have done it without having the interior loom as a couple of wires were not as they appeared and the o2 sensor is a bit of a pot luck as it could be 1 of 3 brands, I have a Nippon Denso model which until we hook up the OBD2 aren't sure if it's working correct.

 

I have isolated the OBD2 wires and they run to one of the fuse boxes and interesting which I hope may not be needed is that from the connector 1 wire runs back to the Body Module which I am not running. i am hoping it reports on cabin type info and not anything important.

 

OLDSCHOOL FORUM yet again gets 2 thumbs up - great forum and even better people.  :cheers:

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What year ECU are you using? Altezza's are one of those naughty cars that had a 16pin DLC connector, which is used for the OBDII standard, but werent actually ODBII compliant for a couple of years. You might have issues getting generic readers to work on them. If your ECU is a later one though, it should work sweet.

 

Also, Altezza's used a proprietary networking system to communicate between some of the modules in the car, known as 'Body Electronic Area Network', B.E.A.N. The gauge cluster talks on this network, and gets a few signals from it, like the coolant temp, and fuel level warning info. You'll find your fuel warning light will most likely come on in the dash, regardless of the actual fuel level. This is a warning light from the cluster telling you it's not receiving some data it's expecting. Best bet is to remove the bulb, and remember to fill it up :-). Make sure you hook up the 'MPX+' and 'MPX-' wires. It's actually a ring-bus network, so you don't technically need both wires if you've only got two devices on the network, but it adds redundancy.

 

My final year project for my engineering degree ended up being all about B.E.A.N, and is used by Link Electronics in their Altezza plugin ECU.

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B.E.A.N

 

I hope you flicked that project.

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What year ECU are you using? Altezza's are one of those naughty cars that had a 16pin DLC connector, which is used for the OBDII standard, but werent actually ODBII compliant for a couple of years. You might have issues getting generic readers to work on them. If your ECU is a later one though, it should work sweet.

 

Also, Altezza's used a proprietary networking system to communicate between some of the modules in the car, known as 'Body Electronic Area Network', B.E.A.N. The gauge cluster talks on this network, and gets a few signals from it, like the coolant temp, and fuel level warning info. You'll find your fuel warning light will most likely come on in the dash, regardless of the actual fuel level. This is a warning light from the cluster telling you it's not receiving some data it's expecting. Best bet is to remove the bulb, and remember to fill it up :-). Make sure you hook up the 'MPX+' and 'MPX-' wires. It's actually a ring-bus network, so you don't technically need both wires if you've only got two devices on the network, but it adds redundancy.

 

My final year project for my engineering degree ended up being all about B.E.A.N, and is used by Link Electronics in their Altezza plugin ECU.

No idea what year it is.

I will decide on the dash after I get the OBD2 working as if it works out I will use it to run a dash.

I still want some wiring to the onboard gauges though, Thanks for the info as it may come in handy :)

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Try this for OBD2 readers, works on my redtop engine.

 

http://www.mr2.com/forums/threads/92691-Working-OBD2-on-jdm-ecu!

 

Actually I have the free trial of that one and another that works is OBD2 Car Doctor (Android)

I will likely try a few others but the thing I liked about Torque (Free) was yu cab do your own layout of not just dials but other widgets as well.

 

Thanks for the tip again Roman

The problem I have is that the O2 sensors dont read in most.... so i am not sure if i have it working or not yet

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