Testament Posted November 16, 2019 Share Posted November 16, 2019 On 14/11/2019 at 16:42, peteretep said: there is pressurised glue in line feeding the guns, the times relate to the pneumatically operated solenoids which open the valves for the pressurised glue lines. We can measure everything pretty accurately as the cardboard is moving via servo with encoder feedback. Problem with that is we need to buy a machine to test it, costing $25k hmmm even with encoders normal plcs wont actually record the data reliably at that data rate from what I know. although maybe im just used to different plcs that are slower for reasons of systems compatability and reliability. anytime we need to measure stuff in ms its always with a standalone recorder/datalogger thigns like circuit breaker close times, stop valve close times, shaft vibrations/orbits on journal bearings. talking at speeds like that alot of things could make a difference like the glue as said, even just ambient temps, wear of moving parts etc. I would think you would want to have a fair bit of headroom in the machine speed to account for that if reliability/unattended operation is pretty important. so maybe the listed speed difference between the options isnt really a big deal? chose the one that ticks other boxes best? also one of them listing a higher speed but will only do that for 100 hours continuous or something where the one thats listed slower max actually will run at the speed for 10,000hours? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentra Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 that thing is flying why do they use air at all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostchips Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 After deciding that i can't really devise a means of making a sparkplug ionization measuring device at home... Has anyone here used inductance on the coil lead to calculate the delay of firing a coil to the point of the spark occurring? Bonus points if it's an earth lead on a C.o.P. setup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4nd Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Try LTSpice to simulate, or put a current transformer around the output lead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Anybody used water methanol injection for intercooling? post turbo. I've been reading a bit of stuff which suggests it works quite well. Have been looking at options on my car. Have a water to air ic but it's going to add quite a lot of weight and complexity Air to air also have but the bodywork covers a lot of the core plus would lose bonnet catch It's not going to be a daily or very often so I dont think the methanol required is going to be a big expense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNAMUCK Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I did a lot of research into it a while back. Came across some website of a salt.flat bike racing team. Their.kits were very expensive. But my other research revealed that the "coolingmist" brand stuff was the pic of the affordable stuff. There was a guy at datsun 1200.com running a datsun 1000 wagon with an A15 running 30 psi or boost. He ran two hobbs switches. The pump started up at 5psi boost, then a second switch opened the injection nozzle solenoid at 12psi. Theres quite an array of different irrigation type nozzles. (More misty, more surface area - more heat absorbed from the charge) but they require decent pressure to work. Pretty sure those cooling mist pumps run around the same pressure as an efi pump. But they're able to be dead headed, and they seals are able to cope with the rigours of methanol too.* *at least I think it was cooling mist ones that are the ones I'm thinking of 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 From running some ghetto methanol suck through turbo things there is no doubt it works amazing, the phase change of the meth draws out shit loads of heat and would make the manifolds cold to touch. But isn't it just another form of complexity and point of failure similar to the other options? always have to have it full and pumps working, got to keep meth around which doesn't have a long shelf life?. Make the air to air work for simplest option? I'm sure you can work around the body work covering it with some simple ducting and engineer some new bonnet latch setup? /ling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adoom Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, cletus said: Anybody used water methanol injection for intercooling? post turbo. I've been reading a bit of stuff which suggests it works quite well. Have been looking at options on my car. Have a water to air ic but it's going to add quite a lot of weight and complexity Air to air also have but the bodywork covers a lot of the core plus would lose bonnet catch It's not going to be a daily or very often so I dont think the methanol required is going to be a big expense Yes. It was very effective. Especially after the tuner replaced the water with 100% E85. I think there might have been ~10 degree temp drops after the injector. But, the jets that came with the Aquamist system did not supply a consistent/repeatable amount of E85. So I replaced it with an inline fuel pump and additional injector and it was retuned. When the E85 injector was running, it reduced the 'normal' fuel at the primary injectors. It was reliable... for a few weeks/months until I took it to a track day and something failed with the E85 system. Since the ECU had no way to know there was no E85. the fuel mix went REALLY lean and shit melted. That's my story. 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yowzer Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 21 hours ago, Ghostchips said: After deciding that i can't really devise a means of making a sparkplug ionization measuring device at home... Has anyone here used inductance on the coil lead to calculate the delay of firing a coil to the point of the spark occurring? Bonus points if it's an earth lead on a C.o.P. setup. I have done this with an oscilloscope on a few occasions 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Yeah as adoom says once you are using the aclohol as a coolant you cannot help but also using it as a fuel source so you have to tune your whole setup for the "coolant" then if you have a failure you go lean. So the cooling system has to be treated as an secondary fuel system which can never fail. Seems what you may save in perceived simplicity you gain a whole new stack of risk as you are reliant on another active fuel system to be working correctly at all times. Giz passive cooling from air any day on a street car. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kicker Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Don't those systems piss through it as well so big tanks are needed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNAMUCK Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I did a quick google, and that motorbike page said 170cc per minute per 300hp. Based on your ET's, (plus the inevitable wick turning up in future) youd be looking at around the 500hp mark. So.thats 283cc per minute. A three litre tank would give you ten minutes of WOT. And looking at their.website, cooling mist do a.pump rated to 300psi. That motorbike page hates on the shurflo/flojet pumps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nominal Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 There's a few stories on Autospeed (a bit older but Julian Edgar knew his stuff) More linked from the first story http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=AutoSpeed-Water-Injection-System-Part-1&A=110368 http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=AutoSpeed-Water-Injection-System-Part-2&A=110369 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 This is how much of the intercooler gets covered, ends up with 2 x 150x150 squares in the air flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.H. Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 That will be plenty of air flow over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 You would probably be surprised how much air is moving around in there at speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Hmm, decent radiator fans would help as well to get the air moving over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 And oh so simple, no pump failure and melty engine. Can you run something wider? In the pic it seems so? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cletus Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Dunno, I think I'd need to run it up the other way so the pipes work, and the inner guards taper in at the bottom so theres not as much room for bends etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I have a pumped system on the fiat but it's general other shit running issues precluded seeing any benefit from it to date, will have to see if sequential injection solves the other issues and report back. That said it depends how its tuned. if you tune it so its fine without the water injection then no big worries. also put a low level switch/warning ideally. basically the WI should lower the IAT so the ecu should know to retard timing/reduce boost etc. when IAT = too high another option with WI for simplicity is using an air atomising nozzle and boost pressurised tank so theres no pump to fail. you bleed boost off the compressor to push the water out of the tank, and in the nozzle a second supply of air bleed is used to atomise the liquid which is then injected upstream of the compressor - this makes the air denser and increases the mass flow rate of the compressor so you can use a slightly smaller compressor wheel for a given flowrate/power level. Air to air is certainly the least fuss to live with but none of the issues with WI are thaaaaat big of a deal if it's actually put together well. You can have the same kind of issues with your main fuel injectors or fuel pump blocking up or stoping working. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.