zep Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Hey everyone, I'm helping a friend put his (my old) Beetle back together after a paint job and am encountering some weirdness when trying to bleed the brakes. Details: '73 Aussie Beetle, drum rear, disc front. I did NOT bench bleed the master cylinder. There are no leaks in the piping from the reservoir to the master cylinder or in the brake lines. We started with the rear left - rear right: bled absolutely fine. Fronts, not a lot of action going on here. At first the fluid was pushing through the caliper well, then it just kind of stopped. Mate pushes the pedal, fluid doesn't come out of the caliper. Some times it does, but very very slow and not very much (like 20mm in the tube). Then it appears to creep back into the caliper even though the valves are done up! What might be causing this lack of pedal-fluid action? Especially when it seems to be intermittent. Am I going to have to rip off the m/c and bench bleed it? I thought it might be because the master cylinder is gravity fed and it wasn't getting enough fluid from the reservoir but checked that and fluid pissed out all over me. Help?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Bench bleeding makes ALL the difference. Otherwise you are just compressing air and getting fuck all fluid movement through the lines.. In theory if you persevere long enough you may get it sorted but it never seems to be right. The reason the drum end would work is the volume required to bleed calipers is much greater. Also the fluid running back into the hose is just the bubbles flowing to the top of the hose. It looks like the fluid is going backwards but its not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 Shitlords. I never bench bled the Gem's one and it's always been fine. Wish I hadn't forgotten about the need to do it, now will have to remove it all and start again. Mate is gonna be pisssssed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllTorque Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 You can bleed the master cylinder when on the car. Just crack the pipes and put a rag underneath. It'll save having to pull it off again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 ^that - bench bleed is just a term not a location. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unclejake Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Zep, are you certain the pipes are hooked up correctly on the M/C? If the front and rear lines were in the wrong ports on the M/C then strange things would happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgweiser Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 As KK has said, gravity bleeding first is the way to go, starting with the master cylinder. Also been a beetle check the condition of the hose to the reservoir. It is common for the older hoses to dissolve internally causing a fluid restriction. If all of that checks out and still no pressure to the front the pressure cup must be damaged or swollen. Been a 73 there should be two outlets on the MC to the front brakes which generally means you bleed the right front first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My name is Russell Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Mounted wrong sides / upside down possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 Zep, are you certain the pipes are hooked up correctly on the M/C? If the front and rear lines were in the wrong ports on the M/C then strange things would happen Yeah, I'm sure they are correct, could not fit any other way. As KK has said, gravity bleeding first is the way to go, starting with the master cylinder. Also been a beetle check the condition of the hose to the reservoir. It is common for the older hoses to dissolve internally causing a fluid restriction. If all of that checks out and still no pressure to the front the pressure cup must be damaged or swollen. Been a 73 there should be two outlets on the MC to the front brakes which generally means you bleed the right front first. I always thought you bled starting from the furthest away brake first. So I started from the rear left. Hoses are all new. There is pressure to the front, but not consistent. What is the pressure cup? You can bleed the master cylinder when on the car. Just crack the pipes and put a rag underneath. It'll save having to pull it off again. Easiest technique for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 2 people - Person A under the car with spanners for the pipe nuts coming out of the master (and rags to contain fluid), Person B in the car for the pedal and topping up fluid. LINE 10 Person B pumps up the pedal 6 times holds down the pedal and yell "DOWN" then tops up master cylinder resevoir LINE 20 Person A cracks of the pipe nut (with rag wrapped around pipe and M/Cyl to catch fluid spray) and when fluid has stopped squirting he tightens the nut and yells "PUMP" If fluid is coming out all spattery sounding THEN GOTO 10 ELSE tighten pipe nuts and washes off brake fluid with water to save corrosion THEN bleed brakes all around Should be sweet after this... . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 Should I take all the lines off at once? Or one at a time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 One at a time - don't need to take them off - just crack the flare nut off about 2-3 flats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 Any particular order? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 I always go furtherest from the M/C to the closest. In your case LR, RR, LF, RF. But AFAIK there is no set in stone method - thats just my preference. (Borg is an ex Euro dealer mechanic so he may have the actual recommended factory sequence) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zep Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 I meant for bleeding the master cylinder. There is a single outlet for the rear (closest to the pedal) and two up the front for the L/R front brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 Start on the rear and then do either side for the front then do the rear again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyGal Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 My beetle was a prick to bleed. They seem to take forever! Nothing like a normal car. I eventually got it ok though. Just dont expect it to happen as fast as a Japanese car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmatt4 Posted October 29, 2012 Share Posted October 29, 2012 i have found a trick that works also release both bleed nipples at the front top up the fluid then sit down and have a few beers the while gravity lets the fluid slowley go down the brake lines and leak out the nipples starts the fliud motion works well on minis which are a bastard to bleed too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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