azzurro Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 this is what i understand, but it may be all balls: fiat running gear (ie twin cam) is a bolt in (pretty much). these are based on the 124 series which had coil springs in the rear, same as on 124 Coupe as well, so there is quite alot of aftermarket stuff out there for them. However the susp was designed and set up from factory to ride higher than the fiats due to rough russian roads/snow/fat babushkas so lowering to bumps = not really that low. Also lowering makes them handle like shit, (moving wishone mounts etc etc required to fix geometry esp if you are looking to go real low) but they do look 100x better. most lowered 124/210x ive seen use coil springs rather than installing coil overs as the strut top mounts (rather than the OEM spring mounts) would be taking all the suspension stresses and cars weight, and are not that strong as they were never designed for it. On the front, for eg the lower weiht/stresses would all be on the lower shock mounting bolt. can be done but poss not worth it? You would have to change so much to get them to work properly. Just chuck some one way adjusties at it. If the coils are 100m ID then toyota estima rear srings will fit - easy to remove from an estima, plenty being wrecked and have a higher spring rate. Niva springs are also an option and come in a range of rates (colour coded) you will need an internal spring compressor to get the fronts out tho, as they mount on the bottom wishbone, but have the upper wishbone around them :\ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Grumble Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 ^ Thanks heaps for all that info arrurro! I think I will indeed go down the new springs and shortened shocks route, mostly because I forgot that i'm now broke, lols. Good to know where to look/what springs to look out for! Cheers heaps! Talked to chap at speed factor, he was more than happy to make up a coil over set for me by mixing and matching kits, and said it would come to around $1700 for the coil overs, and then what ever time they spent working out what I needed, which aint bad, but as I mentioned above, I remembered I have no money, and for a cruiser, it maybe a bit OTT. I also talked to Archers springs in Rotorua, and they can reset a pair of coils for $90, or make custom ones for around $230 a pair. I dont think I will be able to have the rears reset tho, I read somewhere that they are long as buggery, so if I wanted to go, say 150mm lower, the coils would pretty much be sitting on each other, haha. Time for a measure up and trip to pickapart me thinks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzurro Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 like i say it might be balls, i only know about 125s, and they are a bit different suspension wise and mines not even that sorted! but this guy is doing it right http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.c ... 992&page=4 this is a good 'where to check for rust' thread (other than errywuurr) and how to fix it: http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.c ... 251&page=3 but this is the real shizz (turn google translate on) http://lowclub.com.ua/ http://www.onlydropped.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzurro Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 dont bother with resetting, like you say because of the long spring and low rate, under a lot of commpression at std height, it wont hold any weight after resetting - it will be lower, but softer too ask me how i know also, $1700 can gtfo - go to pick-a-part mang, and spend the change on twin sideys, a roof rack, widened steels, and some $30 kybs from here: http://www.autoricambi.us/cgi/commerce. ... egory=SU03 you might even have enough left over for a crate o' quarts to go up on the rack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Grumble Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Shit me. Didnt think about looking on retro rides, but have been geezing only dropped/low club. Yeh boss, def going spring hunting/having a play around! Need to do this on a budget, as I have an 86 that needs painting soon. Def need a roof rack tho, and have already purchased a few trinkets, cant wait to get stuck in! Once again, thanks heaps for all the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 this is what i understand, but it may be all balls:fiat running gear (ie twin cam) is a bolt in (pretty much)............. etc. etc. what kyle said ^ This is correct as he says coilovers require alot of mods to the wishbone and body mounts on the front - rear would be easier though. the fiat running gear is different, i.e. engine/gearbox/diff BUT the mountings are all the same as far as i know. things like brake lines will be different probably as lada has different brakes and drums at the rear not sure if the hubs/knuckles are identical or not but pretty sure the wishbones are and all the bushings and balljoints etc. are the same. There are some differences in the steering boxes but I think all the drag links etc. are interchangeable. i made up a doohickey for the front springs, could borrow it if you want but no guarantees that it wont explode and take your eye out. you can cut a heap and still be captive at the front, the springs below are spax supposed to drop 40mm on a 124 but actually was about 60mm - and still heaps captive and a pain in the arse to get in/out looking in that 2nd photo at ride height my 124 has the bottom arm pointing ever so slightly down from the wheel to the chassis and there is only a small gap to the bumpstop so you will have to chop/modify shit there to get "super slam" same thing here in the back, only about 10mm to the bumps (note there is one on the diff nose too) after dropping more like 70mm in the rear (rear will need short arse shocks to stay captive as the suspension can droop heaps) lada may have even more massive bumps - I'm not sure, maybe chris can comment if he is over his seething rage at being scuppered to the deal. My car sits approx 100mm to the crossmember atm with 185/55/14 - so if you hack out the bumps and go lower with springs you could get maybe another 40mm max before getting into steel surgery. and then if you run 175/50/13 thats probably another 20-30mm lower again - which you may carry off without have to goto max low (although why wouldn't you?) as I think the 124 seda/lada has smaller guards so the 13's should look better - on the coupe the wheelarches are pretty massive so teeny tyres would require ultra mega optimus prime slam to have acceptable tyre to guard gap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Ive never needed a spring compressor to remove springs from wishbones - car on axle stands and a floor jack under the bottom arm let down slowly and then a gentle lever of the spring out of its seat works a charm. Even easier to put lowering springs back in cos they are normally a shorter overall height.. However this should not be attempted if you are a rough cunt in a hurry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camo_78 Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Ive never needed a spring compressor to remove springs from wishbones - car on axle stands and a floor jack under the bottom arm let down slowly and then a gentle lever of the spring out of its seat works a charm. Even easier to put lowering springs back in cos they are normally a shorter overall height..However this should not be attempted if you are a rough cunt in a hurry. i use the same method on mk5 cortina front ends Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikuni Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Certain cars can still be under stupidly high preload with the lower arm at maximum droop, so you should always be prepared for this. Low springs is definitely the cheapest and easiest way forward for this, but coilovers would surely be do-able if you just ran a top hat that distributed the load to the upper spring seat rather than the top shock mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SP450andLE Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Just take the springs out. It's a Lada, so you're bound to die in it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azzurro Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 ahh, K-betripping, then you have never experienced the joy of owning a FIAT and their Fully Italian Alternative Take on everything. oh, also what Mikuni says, in the first sentence. Second tho wouldnt quite work - see Toms photos - the top of the spring is quite far below the top of the shock, and the bottom shock mount is just a bolt though the bottom wishbone, which are not that beefy, IMO not beefy enough to take the concntrated forces from a coil over bottom mount . Even this full tilt tarmac rally lada uses std spring mounts, and these guys knows what theyre doing (video is worth a watch): (note also reinforced wishbones and use of spring compressors ) http://www.turbo124.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=8659 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KKtrips Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Certain cars can still be under stupidly high preload with the lower arm at maximum droop, so you should always be prepared for this Never encountered one that was under a high preload - the springs out of an XJS jag have reasonable preload but it was no more than I was comfortable with - they still came out as described (albeit with a decent sproing) Sounds like I was being fully reckless but I was being pretty careful.. plus I have done a lot of them over the years so kinda know what I'm looking for. Maybe I shouldn't share this sort of technique online in case some muppet does it with reckless abandon and gets a spring through the ribcage... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borgweiser Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Certain cars can still be under stupidly high preload with the lower arm at maximum droop, so you should always be prepared for this Never encountered one that was under a high preload - Never attempt on any Mercedes with standard springs... Lada and 99% things, all g factory certified method just hit the springs with the gas plant whilst someone sits on the bonnet, it's how I lowered my Lada wags back in the day /worst advice ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Grumble Posted April 26, 2012 Share Posted April 26, 2012 Yeh, screw coil overs, sounds like to much work/i'm to lazy, will just play with springs till its as low as I can get it without cutting into arms/car. I can whip up some sort of clamping device for the front easy enough, as I may need to use it several times. Once again, thanks everyone for the info, you lot are ok ya know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steelies Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 i love it how these threads go.. lots of good advice, questions being answered, years of experience thrown in, multiple hi tech options, and bam - back at short springs and chopping bumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 I know people have done the spring change guido spec on 124's ala something along the line of what KK is suggesting - but when I mucked with mine I could never see how it could work with any sembalence of safety with the stupendous amount of preload on the stock springs, or even on my spax springs. the bottom arm goes down to nearly vertical and the spring becomes a semi circle and still has a zillion force on it. I found even with the internal spring compressor setup I had to use a crowbar and a podgy bar to lever the springs out and back in. shit knows how you would get the thing back in without an internal spring compressor untill you got them really really short. ah manu. always with the words of wisdom..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vintage Grumble Posted April 27, 2012 Share Posted April 27, 2012 He is wise beyond his years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 I vote for body colour matched Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xsspeed Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 chocolate brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beaver Posted April 30, 2012 Share Posted April 30, 2012 oooo or that^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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