Rhyscar's Toyota Levin - 2zzge Touring car - finished*

[Rhyscar]

35 minutes ago, kp60nick said:

Great to see you out there. But your presence and your car does make me want to level up a bit more from the practically stock car I have now. It's the just the natural progression of a track car. 

Definitely do it again sometime. 

Thanks man, although a word of warning - I'm not sure I would endorse anyone do what I've done to be fair. It was unbelievably hard.

But you'd be suprised how far you'll get by getting spring rates in the right range - and once you're there you only need to add power and brakes. Which, considering you're starting with a low bar on those fronts, substantial improvement will be easily achievable! The part I've not done well is keeping getting out there - which you're excelling at. 

Thinking I'll try get out to the next one end of June - main track maybe and stretch its legs a little. 

 

31 minutes ago, xsspeed said:

K swap logo you all heard it

This would be so rad. and terrifying. 

[kp60nick]

51 minutes ago, xsspeed said:

K swap logo you all heard it

I'm from west Auckland and I like to keep it in the family.

The D16 I've had for the last year waiting is getting prepped and ready to drop in.

[Roman]

Was gutted I couldnt come watch, looked awesome from the footage. 
What sort of adjustability do you have in the swaybars? Is it different holes in the rear bar?

The Logo is bloody cool as well, there's something to be said for just getting a whole bunch of seat time.
The enjoyment of those incremental improvements and gains is the same with everything I reckon.

Please dont ever change or break the front bumper @Rhyscar its absolutely iconic for this car and looks mega.

[Rhyscar]

It’s just got a massive slot so infinite adjustment. I’ve added some marks for reference 10mm apart so I think I softened it by 20mm and it made a noticeable difference. 
 

Thanks Dave, will keep smashing bumpers off my bingo card. In do have a spare tucked away in a shed in Hawkes bay for backup though..
 

Really keen to get as many people out for rides as possible, but finding track days that allow it is hard - I was thinking of stooping to one of those chrome style events where they don’t care about safety just to get as many people in the car as possible. Will keep you posted. 

[Roman]

Those chrome type days make me nervous aye.

Seen a few incidents where someone has put 100 points into horsepower and 5 points into suspension and brakes. Then had predictable outcomes, sometimes involving Gran Turismo style braking into turn 1.

[GARDRB]

How much fun are Wilwoods to bleed though

[Rhyscar]

1 hour ago, GARDRB said:

How much fun are Wilwoods to bleed though

More nipples than your mum. and sooo TINY. And needing to carry a 1/4" spanner is a PITA

[mjrstar]

How bad was the too cold /no bite on the winmax w5? 

Was it the sort of thing you can get away with more pedal effort for a couple of corners or worse than that?

[Hyperblade]

2 hours ago, GARDRB said:

How much fun are Wilwoods to bleed though

They get a lot worse when you break the tiny bleed nipples off  such a stupid design.

46 minutes ago, mjrstar said:

How bad was the too cold /no bite on the winmax w5? 

Was it the sort of thing you can get away with more pedal effort for a couple of corners or worse than that?

I run W5 and I don't have an issue with them from cold.

If your look at the coeffcient data they are actually pretty good from cold.

[Rhyscar]

1 hour ago, mjrstar said:

How bad was the too cold /no bite on the winmax w5? 

Was it the sort of thing you can get away with more pedal effort for a couple of corners or worse than that?

It wasn't too bad from cold, but realised afterwards the fitting on the outlet of the master cylinder wasn't all the way tight. Not enough to noticeably leak when in pits, but it would be bleeding off some of the brake pressure to the fronts. So I think the fronts never saw enough pressure to get properly warm, and the rears (Wilwood compound) were overheating. 

Considering whether I'd run the W3 for hillclimbs though. Grip levels are slightly different and runs are so short you need confidence right away. 

 

But I haven't got the Winmax's properly heated up to the point where they are amazing yet - so I'll get some temp paint next time to confirm if we're getting into the right heat range, and double check all my fittings! 

[mjrstar]

2 hours ago, Rhyscar said:

 

Considering whether I'd run the W3 for hillclimbs though. Grip levels are slightly different and runs are so short you need confidence right away. 

@Hyperblade graph shows the 3 & 5 have the same starting point with operation from ambient and don't really split away for a couple of hundred degrees.

Some of the behavior of the pad will come down to your braking duration which at a hillclimb is generally pretty short, and at worst you might do the occasional 180kph to 60kph. You really want something that won't pinch mid bump or at a turn-in when you are doing a bit of trail braking.

a circuit car with smallish brakes might see a bigger gradient if it's doing longer stops for multiple laps with marginal cooling. And things like slick tyres which means you can actually use more braking force.

The biggest workout my brakes have had was at waitara street sprints where it was basically a bunch of straights followed by low speed 90 degree corners. 

[Hyperblade]

2 hours ago, mjrstar said:

@Hyperblade graph shows the 3 & 5 have the same starting point with operation from ambient and don't really split away for a couple of hundred degrees.

Some of the behavior of the pad will come down to your braking duration which at a hillclimb is generally pretty short, and at worst you might do the occasional 180kph to 60kph. You really want something that won't pinch mid bump or at a turn-in when you are doing a bit of trail braking.

a circuit car with smallish brakes might see a bigger gradient if it's doing longer stops for multiple laps with marginal cooling. And things like slick tyres which means you can actually use more braking force.

The biggest workout my brakes have had was at waitara street sprints where it was basically a bunch of straights followed by low speed 90 degree corners. 

That's a very good point.

Unfortunately the graph only shows the effectiveness of the pads at different temperature levels. How long your on the brakes each corner is going to have a big impact on where it falls into the range and it doesn't tell you how much heat your brake setup is producing (each different compound produces different amounts of heat at different durations back into the system) and how effective the cooling is in between applications.

For hill climbs I suspect you want consistency above everything else, as you really don't want to lockup and go off the road (that plus varying surface for grip) or lose effectiveness because they are hot, so something as horizontal as possible? or slightly trending down at the end would make sense to me (just pure speculation on my part) so a W4 might be best suited as good initial bite then fairly consistent up to 500c?

[Truenotch]

I run W5s with bigger calipers and rotors (so more thermal capacity) than @Rhyscar and never have an issue from cold. They feel pretty simar up a hillclimb or at the end of a 30 minute race at Highlands.

What rotors are you running Rhys? It could also be worth using some temp paint to see how hot they're getting. 

23 hours ago, Roman said:

Please dont ever change or break the front bumper @Rhyscar its absolutely iconic for this car and looks mega.

That thing is so solid. I reckon it has twice the fibreglass thickness mine does. 

Also Rhys, do you overfill your oil at all? I run an extra 500ml in my car. H6 rally guys run an extra litre in their engines... could be a cheap fix?

[Rhyscar]

I was pretty happy with them from cold, just don’t feel like I could lock a front wheel if I wanted too. Which the master cylinder fitting leak would explain. But just needing a bit more confidence from the fronts. 
 

Running shitty RDA rotors cause they’re the only thing available to suit the MRP wildwood kit I’ve got… I’d love to upgrade, but until I solve the actual problem with my system upgrading rotors would just mask the underlying issues. We ran this exact setup on dad’s ae82 for years with no brake cooling and every brand of rotor and that thing brakes amazingly. 
 

@mjrstar I was happy that the tears weren’t bitey when they locked, they just skipped along and I could modulate out of the lock and do a little more trial braking if needed. They only caught me out on the last session which was super wet, downhill and bumpy entry to last corner after passing an escort… so the outcome was predictable 

But agree with everything you said about what characteristics you DONT want on a tarmac sprint!
 

I’m feeling ok about the cold performance for now - it’s just a matter of getting the hot performance up a bit. 
 

@Truenotch yeah overfilled by 500ml or so. Didn’t seem to harm it, didn’t breath too much either so it’s not picking it up and splashing it around too much. I need to look at the logs properly to figure out what’s going on. Should get a chance on the weekend.  

[Rhyscar]

Here's a quick look at the log. The first spike of RPM limit 2 (oil pressure) is turn 1 - when I'm off throttle, but RPM's still high. The second one is me picking up the throttle and crossing the 7000rpm threshold I've set with a min of 45psi (I think - can't remember exactly). Between the two cut events, the oil pressure stays low (wrong end of sump), but it isn't active because the 5000rpm threshold is a bit lower. 

 

So interesting findings, not surprising though. I knew oil surge would be a problem eventually. I also don't think I've got the limits set too tight ~45psi oil pressure at 7000rpm is not very much at all... especially considering the oil isn't really hot - it didn't go above 80deg all session. When not surging, pressure is up around 70psi at the same RPMs. 

 

[Honda Ass Dragger]

Check out brypar for rotors

[Rhyscar]

Finally got around the putting together a video of the day. Bunch of random clips/highlights but gives a good idea of how it goes.