Rhyscar's Toyota Levin - ‘fab it all from scratch’ project

[mjrstar]

In my experience a lightweight well handling na 4 cylinder the handling and braking plus how well the gearbox will shift & decent driver will trump whatever peak power people talk about on the internet. 

 

I do however suspect it will go hard for what it is, plus will make doort noises, and it's clear to see you have considered a 2zz.

So ticks all those boxes.

 

My honda wouldn't even go under a 14 flat 1/4 mile but is capable of competing closely with some pretty modified turbo awd race cars. 

/ skid pics aren't loading?

[Rhyscar]

1 hour ago, mjrstar said:

/ skid pics aren't loading?

Yeah agree 100% it’ll be fun and fast no matter what power it makes. I’m most interested in the result because most people on the internet with 2zz’s are celica/mr2 or lotus weirdos who pay the money rather than engineering things properly themselves. I haven’t seen any properly impressive NA builds or power for that matter. 

 

Skids are a while away still.. but I do have an excess of shitty 17” goodrides in my tyre stash 

[Roman]

I forgot about this, but ages ago I helped a mate wire a link into a 2ZZ runx rally car. 
So from memory this was completely standard mechanically, apart from ECU install.
So still that super grotty exhaust manifold and so on. So made pretty sweet power considering.
Based on this powerband looks like it should keep going for another 1000rpm, guess they were playing it safe. 
But was easy to tune out the dip from the factory lift being set at a stupid RPM to feel more VTEC-ey.

[Rhyscar]

Yeah wow that’s a super flat power delivery when you get vvt working. And the high rpm dip is most definitely the yuck exhaust manifold situation. Will be interesting to see how it goes above 8000!

[Rhyscar]

Unexciting update but lots of little jobs being ticked off the list. Might get to drive it down the street this weekend fingers crossed. 

 

Luckily, oil cooler was under warranty <1yr old so Aeroflow replaced it. Pretty grateful for the service. 

 

Oil adapter block was leaking cause I forgot to put an O-ring in it. Pretty silly mistake but all sorted now. 

 

Here's a quick rev and sound check. I'm amazing at how snappy and good it sounds. 3" with 1x adrenalin R rear muffler and it isn't painful on the ears. Much excitement for whats to come. 

 

[Rhyscar]

Oh man what a ride this has been. After running it for above vid and a few other times that day to tidy up fueling at idle, I got out to see it had dumped all it's oil on the driveway. Turns out it blew the remote oil filter adapter right off... Luckily, I think I caught this in time to not run the engine dry (fingers crossed!). 

So as always, there's a bit of a back story where some time ago, I couldn't figure out fittings for the 2zz filter thread to adapt to the aftermarket (whole knows what brand/origin) oil filter adapter. And then in a seemingly genius 'EUREKA' moment late one night I thought I got it sorted and slapped everything together. Fast forward to current day and yeah well, it wasn't sorted, and it was completely the wrong thread. Didn't even damage the thread when it blew off that's how loose it was!

Almost brought me to tears after the amount of effort and energy I've put into this car. Had to take a few days off to try forget about it and start to think about it a little more rationally. 

 

So after not being able to find the right adapter, with the help of @Geophy, we bastardised a m20x1.25 truck brake fitting and welded it to the 2zzge bit like so. Was going to do with the grinder, but better judgement got the better of me and decided it would be best if we did it on the lathe so I can be 100% confident it's square and won't cause any issues. 

So it works now, has good thread engagement and doesn't leak. Win! only issue was it tightened up in the wrong spot meaning my short hose to oil filter wouldn't reach. Had to change fittings and re-make the line so it loops around. This is a much nicer solution so happy with it, just more effort required. 

 

 So managed to run car again during my lunchbreak after a few more liters of oil... Doesn't sound like its done any bearing damage, has good oil pressure too. I'll probably drop the oil now and cut open to filter to double check nothing went amiss. 

 

Also here's a quick 3-4000rpm sound check for rasp the rasp-meter. Isn't as bad as I initially expected to be fair, but yeah its def got some rasp. 

 

Headers are starting to get a little colouring on them

 

The other day I also completed the mind-numbing task of swapping the clutch and rear brake master cylinders over. Turns out I'd installed these the wrong way around years ago, then kept them like that.. Massive PITA due to a spacer between masters and pedal box but got there in the end. Many, many curse words were issued while lying upside down in the footwell, doing tiny spanner movements many many times over (25mm of thread), with a brake pedal in my grill. Not fun. 

 

Does anyone have any good guidelines for engine run-in? Engine has been sitting for 11-12yrs. Has fresh bearings (didn't touch crank), valves (oversized) and Headgasket but from memory we didn't touch the rings and we left the factory liner alone. 

 

 

[shrike]

39 minutes ago, Rhyscar said:

Does anyone have any good guidelines for engine run-in? Engine has been sitting for 11-12yrs. Has fresh bearings (didn't touch crank), valves (oversized) and Headgasket but from memory we didn't touch the rings and we left the factory liner alone.

You've dropped the oil already, so fresh filter and oil, then just drive it (maybe take it easy the first few 100km)

Id probably run some higher zinc oil as that will help with lubrication, wont hurt anything and should help with reducing wear/friction

How clean is the motor? if the motor has some buildup you could run some higher detergent oil to help clean it out

Main reason for breaking in an engine are for rings to seal and not bearings

Probably do an earlier oil change just to make sure everything looks ok

[mjrstar]

I'd say if you haven't done rings then it's ready for full send I reckon.

On a side note a mate of mine has a b16a racecar he wanted higher compression so put some second hand pistons in it, inspected the rings and bores and decided the 250,000 km original rings were still good to go.

So no need to bed rings, and can get straight into swinging the engine to 9200 rpm again.

[Rhyscar]

Cool thanks @shrike and @mjrstar , consensus is it's good to go. I found a 5w-30 Penrite mineral oil that I'm running it on currently. A little unsure what spec to go with next, may just default to Motul 300v because it literally works with everything racecar related. 

Although I'd be interested in what oil the TRS cars ran in these engines? Surely a Castrol being toyota?

[Truenotch]

It sounds great man! I can't wait to hear it at full song. 

Here's some info about engine break-in. There's also a break-in module in the engine building courses on HPA that I know you have access to  . 

 

[Rhyscar]

Thanks man that’s super helpful!

[Rhyscar]

This car has gone on the backburner while I focused on daybreaker rally in the Ke20. Have also been crazy busy travelling every week for work so I've been too tired to spend any time in the shed. Things are starting to ease up now a few work projects are nearing completion so have got a bit of time to look at this. 

So my shifter issues were easy enough to figure out - made some adjustments to the level of gain through my reversing pivots and length of pushrods to get it operating in the right range, now I've got gears 1-6. Unfortunately, they aren't where I expected them to be - the forward/back motion is reversed, but the left/right pattern isn't. So while it works, it isn't 100% how I wanted it. Should be easy enough to fix by bypassing one of the pivot points, but will require laser cutting a new part. 

I've also done some research into reverse lockouts and yes, there is a mod that needs to be done to the reverse lockout spring to decrease the effort needed to get into reverse. Will probably do this when I get sick of pushing the car up the driveway to drive. 

 

I also did what you're not supposed to do and raised it up by 15mm, and added max camber into the front (around 4deg from memory) so it can compress without munching on the guards. Can now go lock to lock with no rubbing. So it's no longer super low, but still tucks tyre all around, retains that touring car look, and makes life a little easier. 

So tune is coming along. Car drives very well down low, and have had it up to 7000rpm or so. Sounds great too - @vk327 can confirm I disturbed the peace in his street. I'm super happy that it wants to Rev heaps and has bucket loads of torque around 4-5000rpm. Unfortunately, I forgot to setup dual fuel/ignition tables for VVT so it went quite lean when VVT engaged. Which is sorted now thanks to @Roman

 

So I started thinking about getting this tuned properly (maybe in time for drag day??) and made me realize I really need to sort the airbox filter out. Original plan was to run a pipercross PX200 and enclose it in some ducting to get fresh air in and keep radiator air out. BUT after a night on the tape measure this isn't going to fit.. 

 

SOOO time to make life difficult for myself with an overcomplicated solution again. Mocked up the basic bottom of the airbox and what the top profile will look like. Still unsure how it will be constructed - I'm tempted to do a good portion in sheetmetal cause I have a sheet of 2mm aluminum sitting there and its easy, but it's likely to crack and rattle and the rest. Other option is 3D print and Carbon wrap like Dave's old airbox - although part is a lot bigger and big flat sections are not ideal. So will try to figure out if I can put enough contours into the design to make it strong enough. I'm also thinking about incorporating a thin foam core glued to 3Dprint material then enclosed in carbon to help with heat and provide some flex on the big flat surface. Does anyone have experience 3D printing stuff this size & semi-flat surfaces?

 

A little unsure what to do for filter, but likely to use a bit OTR K&N style filter - Corvette's and commodore's have some nice short/wide sizes available something like 90mm H x 550mm W is what I'll use. 

 

Also the clearance for trumpets is TIGHT. Have a few thoughts on how to address this, which involve a twisted-oval shape, but won't design these until I know what the airbox looks like. Might also be interesting to test the theory that oval musical orifices make more noise than circular ones. Will be 3D printed and carbon wrapped so plenty of design freedom. 

 

I'm conscious of not trying to over-complicate the design too much. My experience is you can spend days on CAD and still have a solution that doesn't fit for whatever reason you've overlooked. So balancing physical prototyping and CAD design will hopefully be the answer.... Let's see how this plan pans out for me 

 

The more I go down the path with this car, the more it starts to look like a touring car - which pretty much sums up all my brain thinks about (apart from gravel skids and lake-based motorboating I guess)

[GARDRB]

 

So I'm no @Roman or @kpr and I know you've already fiddled with your inlet manifold, but now that Dave has proven we can 3d print metal easily and cheaply enough, could you do a curved runner behind the throttle body that lowers the throttle a little to get a nice entry angle?

Would this leave you with atomised fuel pelting into the runner wall, or will the airflow suck the fuel round the corner? 

I've been playing with the sheet metal tool in Fusion and thoroughly enjoyed it. Could be a good next move after cardboard and then order a cut and folded box? 

Could you do silicone connectors between the throttles and the airbox to reduce the effect of vibration and put the bell mouths in the back wall of the box?

Old mate in Kaiwaka with the widebody GTR fronted Stagea has been doing 3D printed modular moulds and producing composite parts off them (OMG just posted my first spoiler and it worked)

 

[mjrstar]

I have successfully used cardboard and tape as a mould to make a fiberglass component..

 

I'd probably make the airbox in 2 halves maybe making the bottom half that you have already in cardboard out of a thin sheet of wood (or the aluminum you already have) and have it clip or screw together. 

 

[Rhyscar]

2 hours ago, GARDRB said:

 

So I'm no @Roman or @kpr and I know you've already fiddled with your inlet manifold, but now that Dave has proven we can 3d print metal easily and cheaply enough, could you do a curved runner behind the throttle body that lowers the throttle a little to get a nice entry angle?

Would this leave you with atomised fuel pelting into the runner wall, or will the airflow suck the fuel round the corner? 

I've been playing with the sheet metal tool in Fusion and thoroughly enjoyed it. Could be a good next move after cardboard and then order a cut and folded box? 

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Yeah change to the intake manifold is possible. I'm actually working on an updated manifold design that's curved atm but it's roughly 20-25mm longer after the throttle. But ultimately looking to sell that for profit/pay for stuff, not put on this car as I think I can make what I've got work. Also a shorter manifold is better - intake length before throttle rather than after is better (in terms of air path).

Yup I use Solidworks sheetmetal but I tend to find its easier/quicker to just cut and fold stuff unless it's super complex. Means you can double check and make adjustments as you go and end up with a better result than laser cutting & realising something isn't right. 

 

2 hours ago, GARDRB said:

 

Could you do silicone connectors between the throttles and the airbox to reduce the effect of vibration and put the bell mouths in the back wall of the box?

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Yeah I get what you mean, this could work OK but then airbox would need more support. I don't think I can get rid of vibration, just a matter of choosing materials that don't hate it like Ali (particularly once welded!!). The whole car vibrates when it's running.. 

 

 

2 hours ago, GARDRB said:

Old mate in Kaiwaka with the widebody GTR fronted Stagea has been doing 3D printed modular moulds and producing composite parts off them (OMG just posted my first spoiler and it worked)

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Making molds is a great use of 3D printing but creates an extra step. If there isn't a production run of parts, @Roman has proved one-off 3D printing and overlaying in carbon is a very time effective process. Perhaps not as nice finish as a molded based CF part, but I think it will suit my purposes just fine. 

[Rhyscar]

1 hour ago, mjrstar said:

I have successfully used cardboard and tape as a mould to make a fiberglass component..

 

I'd probably make the airbox in 2 halves maybe making the bottom half that you have already in cardboard out of a thin sheet of wood (or the aluminum you already have) and have it clip or screw together. 

 

 

Thats impressive. Pics or it didn't happen 

 

Yeah it'll be a top & bottom section at the very least, but even getting that flange to sit right after some time (and to model in Solidworks!!) can be a PITA. My experience designing plastic parts generally dictates that rounded corners and contours are your friend and flat surfaces are very hard to keep flat... 

This will be 350mm L x 600mm w x 130mm H - so unsure if this a reasonable size to be 3D printing in one piece or do I need to split it down the middle too?

[GARDRB]

5 minutes ago, Rhyscar said:

This will be 350mm L x 600mm w x 130mm H - so unsure if this a reasonable size to be 3D printing in one piece or do I need to split it down the middle too?

600mm is gonna be pretty big for most printers, but someone like PCBway might be able to do it? You could also look at SLS Nylon or something through them and have a finished part to run with?

 

https://www.pcbway.com/rapid-prototyping/3d-printing/

[mjrstar]

15 minutes ago, Rhyscar said:

 

Thats impressive. Pics or it didn't happen 

Brown packing tape releases nicely, or you can just resin over stretched cloth if you have an organic shape.

The red was just whatever shiny spray can pain I had over a bit of dash, some tape and cardboard a d the secret jib stopping compound (cheap and very quick to sand)

/ dam you Spoiler.

 

 

[Roman]

When I look at this I'm just 100% thinking a curved manifold is going to make your life a hell of a lot easier and it's not going to impact power at all. 

Looks like you either need to cut the bonnet (yuck) or bend the manifold or this is going to be near impossible unless you've got solid mounts.

But having a gross shape at the end of the runners is way worse than having a manifold with a bend in it. 

One of my Echo manifolds had a bend in it like this and it didnt harm power what so ever, but meant I had more room for activities (running an extra fuel rail on top for nerdy purposes)

Paraphrasing KPRs experiences a bit, but generally the important parts of a manifold seem to be right at the entrance, and what happens right at the port - and the motor is quite insensitive to what ever is in the middle. 
Like one of his manifolds had a massive step in the runners (in the wrong direction) and it made 0% difference to power, which is totally counterintuitive! 


 

[Truenotch]

How about making it out of metal and then making a part straight off that as a mould? 

We've done a few carbon pieces at work that way. Brandon 3D modeled an interior footwell tray, got it cut and folded, welded up the corners and then laid a sheet of carbon straight over it. Job's done. You can add foam or nomex between layers for rigidity if needed.

Do that process twice to get both halves and you're sorted? 

Excuse my potato photo: