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Alex's 1968 'oldman special' HB Viva discussion....


yoeddynz

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oh yes another kl swap :iconbiggrin:

they can handle some boost about 8psi on a stock klze then you can upgrade the rods to 302 ones and use a oversized bearing or use KJ-ZEM rods with different wrist pins, but N/A is the way to go!

also got klze vaf/ kl36 ecu/klze dizzy with the ext coil and a brand new exedy clutch if you are after them

if you plan on going n/a look at upgrade the keepers and retainers from the klde as the ze ones are know for dropping out at higher rpm lol

nice score on those parts tho i would of loved to snap them up with the other parts ive got ,so is the bellhousing you got bolt to the kl and w55 gbox?

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oh yes another kl swap :iconbiggrin:

"they can handle some boost about 8psi on a stock klze then you can upgrade the rods to 302 ones and use a oversized bearing or use KJ-ZEM rods with different wrist pins, but N/A is the way to go!"

At a later date I may well bolt a turbo to it but for now I want to see how economical it'll be. I think to start with I'll fit the KF 2litre. I think the KF I have lined up is a ZE model with the higher lift cams.

The 1.8 litre engine in the eunos that I am stripping out now may well be a ZE rather than a DE as well.. Not sure as I'm still learning heaps!!! Like so many bloody wires!! The vaf is a JA50 if that means anything.

"also got klze vaf/ kl36 ecu/klze dizzy with the ext coil and a brand new exedy clutch if you are after them"

Yeah depending on what I end up with I could certainly be interested in the Ecu. The eunos has a dizzy on back with one seperate coil- basic stuff. Still not sure on ID of engine but I think only the very last mx6's etc came with a crank mounted trigger wheel and Ecu controlled ignition...?

The clutch in the eunos is a brand new exedy item. In fact the car still had the boxes in the boot. hopefully it'll work but I might need a 1.8 mx5 disc to suit the rx7 box input splines.

"if you plan on going n/a look at upgrade the keepers and retainers from the klde as the ze ones are know for dropping out at higher rpm lol"

I'm still not sure if the eunos K8 engine I have now is a DE. But yeah- I will have plenty of bits to play about with. I have also read that it can be wise to check the cam bearing tolerances because if too much clearence then you can lose oil pressure - some engines dropping pressure can end up with the main bearings spinning?

"nice score on those parts tho i would of loved to snap them up with the other parts ive got ,so is the bellhousing you got bolt to the kl and w55 gbox?"

Not exactly sure i he means just a bell housing for conversion or if one is already converted to suit? I'm still keen on keeping my rx7 box in place but will see what happens. Cheers for all your info. What cars have you had with these engines?

Alex

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At a later date I may well bolt a turbo to it but for now I want to see how economical it'll be. I think to start with I'll fit the KF 2litre. I think the KF I have lined up is a ZE model with the higher lift cams.

The 1.8 litre engine in the eunos that I am stripping out now may well be a ZE rather than a DE as well.. Not sure as I'm still learning heaps!!! Like so many bloody wires!! The vaf is a JA50 if that means anything.

yes there quite hard to tell if there a ze or a de with the kfs,k8s but easy to tell the displacment as theres a k8 or kf or kl printed in the back of the block on the left.question why don't you just find a full klze 2.5v6 one with the 10:1 comp pistons ? or do you want to stay in the 2l range ,

ps you will have to do some porting on your kf 2l heads to match the square ports on that manifold you are getting as thats to fit a klze 2.5 with the square ports

Yeah depending on what I end up with I could certainly be interested in the Ecu. The eunos has a dizzy on back with one seperate coil- basic stuff. Still not sure on ID of engine but I think only the very last mx6's etc came with a crank mounted trigger wheel and Ecu controlled ignition...?

The clutch in the eunos is a brand new exedy item. In fact the car still had the boxes in the boot. hopefully it'll work but I might need a 1.8 mx5 disc to suit the rx7 box input splines.

i think they all have the trigger wheel which is a 6-1 spikes on it , also have a look at 98+ 626 klg4 2.5 ecu and ign setup if you just want a maf and obd2, 3 outputs to the coil pack and no dizzy as they have a cam angle sensor mounted in the back cyl head which would probably suit you more as your rwd ,but they only came out in the states... as for clutch i think they use the stock v6 clutch but have a Gooooogle around for klze swapped miata :-D

I'm still not sure if the eunos K8 engine I have now is a DE. But yeah- I will have plenty of bits to play about with. I have also read that it can be wise to check the cam bearing tolerances because if too much clearence then you can lose oil pressure - some engines dropping pressure can end up with the main bearings spinning?

yea ive seen that kind of makes sense as you have too much oil pressure in the head and not much down below near the 6th bearing, ill be checking all my clearances when i get around to putting mine back together..

Not exactly sure i he means just a bell housing for conversion or if one is already converted to suit? I'm still keen on keeping my rx7 box in place but will see what happens. Cheers for all your info. What cars have you had with these engines?

theres a adapter around somewhere on the net for using a rx7 gbox on a kl and the spacer for the flywheel to retain the stock one and clutch setup

its alright happy to share some info 8) , heres mine http://oldschool.co....-kfze-to-klze/

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Yeah there is this top chick in England on the miata forum who is making adapters to suit the mx5 bell housings plus appropriate spacer for the flywheel. 5 speed mx5s share the same box as the NA rx7s.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=434146

But with these adapters to suit mx5s you have to chop out the bell housing and make a spacer to suit the starter to the ring gear. I want to make an adaptor to suit my rx7 box as the starter lines up spot on. Except the ring gear is 20mm smaller dia on v6. I'll sort out a solution that works best and is cheap.

I'm not sure what engine I will fit but as they all look the same and physically are the same size I'll certainly tell the cert man that it's a 2.5L.

It will be so easy to swap between motors that I'm not fussed right now. Even the 160 bhp 2.0L KF would be pretty awesome.i have not searched yet but I wind if anyone is making headers for these engines to suit RWD?

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Very very interested in this new engine idea, ive been eying up fitting one of these motors to my rwd 323 wagon for a long time now but never really persued it due to the obvious pains of east west to north south conversion. Have you had any thoughts on engine mounts yet? (sorry i havnt scrolled through the whole thread)

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Without doing any proper measurments but having seen a few other conversions, especially on the above linked miata thread and this thread...

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3078431/1997-mazda-miata-mx-5/page-2

I think the mounts will be pretty easy. The viva has the crossmember in a handy place. Luckily the v6 is front bowl sump and it's pressed steel, not cast alloy.

I will just mount the engine onto the box via whatever adaptor I make and then build mounts to suit. After that sorted I'll modify the sump to suit position. Probably with a nice deep winged bowl.

Some more good info on these engines here...

http://www.davidandjemma.com/mazda/KL.htm

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I'm not convinced a variable intake runner is worth while, because they are just designed to add a bit more torque to a small capacity engine to help it tug along the 1500kg pigs that they were put in. Halving the weight of the car will cure any loss of torque that the engine will experience.

But in saying that, here are a couple of suggestions for variable intake runners. Changing the length of the runner itself is messy, it's better to change the tract to increase or reduce the length.

This is a nice and easy example to see, but obviously it won't work on a V6 due to space constraints. This is from an Opel ecotec 2 litre.

X20XEVvariableintake.jpg

Throttle body at the top, ports to the left. The solenoid in the middle actuates an internal flap that shuts off the long path to the bottom so that the air can only take the short path when at high rpm.

This is the 3 litre ecotec V6 and it runs a system that could work in your case. I can't find a diagram showing it, but from what I understand it has to layers sitting up top. It uses the same principle as above, so air either flows straight in the throttle bodies and into the ports at high rpm, or across to the end of the top layer, then down into the bottom before heading back into the ports. Not ideal, but probably the best you can do in a tight space.

2955139280048927869S600x600Q85.jpg

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Yeah- it could all just end up being a bit of a headache for minimal gains. The Viva should still weigh in at under 900kg even with this engine installed.

I had this reply from Claire on the mx5 KL swap thread;

A good way to save weight on these engines is a lighter flywheel and ally pulleys - I've knocked off something 10kgs of rotating mass on mine , and it feels fine (but picks up sooooooooo well !)

I also run the inlets as short as I can make them on my throttle bodies , and have no problem with torque - the last one showed 170 ft/lbs and 208 bhp , with smoother power and torque curves than a stock KL !

She has throttle bodies- I'm keener on the idea of runners and a plenum chamber due to cost. Are throttle bodies better for top end power or torque?

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It doesn't really make any difference whether you are running individual throttles or a single one - you can have long or short runners either way. Generally people running ITB's will run short runners for ease and this also equates to torque delivery higher in the rev range, meaning more HP.

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ITB's, typically, are used in high rpm situations, with short runners, as they provide the least resistance path for all that high rpm speedy air.... Will shift any harmonic intake effects way up in the rpm range. For your purposes, I'd use that fraser manifold, as it'll be easy, cheap, look sweet, and fit under your bonnet :). Plus, minimal work to get it up and running. If it sucks balls, then you can build something else. But it wont, it'll be awesome. Dibs a drive :P.

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Yeah cool. I'll either use the Fraser manifold or build my own out of carbon fibre and titanium. Which evers easiest...

As I don't work Monday I am meant to be cleaning the engine and sorting things out. So far I have mounted my ancient very heavy Rotal amp on the shed wall and am hacking into my old speakers...

So not much car stuff done.

But I have drunk lots of coffee and the sun is shining so I am happy. And the shed has more room for engine stuff..

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Looks like you're making some reasonable progress with the planning and development of the V6. Pretty handy how it looks as though everything will bolt together and fit nicely. Almost as good as Toyota stuff ;)

Also, where the hell do you get so much time from to fiddle with projects?

What's with the novelty over-sized cheque hanging on your wall?

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