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compound charging/twin charging


d.p.n.s

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isnt that where 'intercooler' came from? I heard that FMIC's and all car ones are actually supposed to be called aftercoolers...

Heard this also.

also thinking about it i'm fairly sure

Turbo----> intercooler---->SC---->intercooler---->TB

wouldn't work as the TB may be forced open however

Turbo----> intercooler---->TB-->SC---->intercooler---->Engine

Would work wouldn't it? running the turbo charger before the SC is i believe what VW did on their twincharger 1.4 tsi and it looks like they used intercoolers between each stage, if this is how a modern engine is designed from factory it must be a pretty good option.

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ok so this is what i have planed

i'm sorry if its a bit of a long read.

and to be honest this is all do able for me to build so it may seem a lot but its not really lol.

i'm going to build my own air box to take a k@n panel filter (will find out from what model car when i find out how big the box will be)

the air box will have 2 holes on the underside that will feed air to the turbo and the supercharger.

the supercharger(sc14) will be bolted to the left side of the motor under and to the front of the turbo

the inlet will be feed from the air box and the out let will run to a y peace before the inlet on the intercooler.

(just a note i haven't thought about pulley sizes at this point)

the turbo will be bolted as top mount setup (again haven't decided on turbo yet but will be externally gated)

the air will be feed from the air box to the turbo and then from the out let on the turbo to a (homemade opening valve)

the open valve will be made from 2 ca18 throttle bodies bolted back to back i will remove one of the butterflies.

i will use an actuator from a old turbo mounted to open and close the butterfly (on one side of the butterfly shaft) the actuator will get signal

from the compressor housing.

on the other side of the butterfly shaft ill mount a swith(like the old brake light swith) that will click on and off as it opens and closes.

this swith will then turn off and on the sc14.

then from the opening valve the turbo intercooler pipe will go to the Y peace.

just before the open valve there will be 2 pipes coming off 1 for a BOV that will vent back to the airbox the other will join to the sc14 intake pipe

from the airbox this is so while the sc14 is running and the turbo is starting to spool in stead of the air going no where it will slowly feed the

sc14 till the turbo makes a certin psi and the open valve will open.

the BOV will have signal from the inlet plenum so when the throttle is shut off the air built up will be vented to the airbox.

so thats on the inlet side of the intercooler on the outlet side the piping will go to the homemade plenum with an othe BOV that will just vent to atmo

the inlet plenum will be boltd to a set of quad throttle bodies.

compoundcharging3.jpg

and thats that.

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your diagram shows the sc going in after the valve thing, but then links in before?

yeah thats right it will flow into the intercooler by its self

the join befor the valve is for the flow from the turbo while

its starting to spool till it gets to a certin psi then opens the valve

shutting down the sc14

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I don't have the mad skills to make a drawing show up in my post,

But I'd rock the turbo oulet to the intoercooler, with the supercharger running in paralelle off that line before the I/C. Then fit a TB between where the supercharger comes in and out of that line. then once the turbo has spooled the blower cuts out, and the TB opens which means equal pressure each side of the supercharger.

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Was just thinking for a motor like a 4age which had tvis or even the 3sgte could you dual inlet pleniums each plenium using its own set of 4 runners goining into the tvis plate, using one set of runners for the super charger and the other set for the turbo

With the TVIS or what ever type of set up swiched off until the turbo had suffencent boost to supply the motor

Random thought

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The early Nissan March Superturbo (Micra K11 The square one) ran a supercharger/turbo on the 993cc engine. The Nissan Micra/March was an early working production car using this system, if a little small to transfer.

The Lancia S4 was a race car, so although admirable was experimental so to speak = $$$$$

But this is a diagram of the VW setup to help things. They run some diesel TDI pressure valves which handle the boost and are off the shelf. The main bit was the control valves move slow enough to allow a smooth transition for the turbo to spool up. Otherwise you get a dip or flatspot.

The clutch control for the supercharger was a VAG part that was used to switch A/C on and off. It shuts it off when the rpm/boost is up.

tsi_airflow.png

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The early Nissan March Superturbo (Micra K11 The square one) ran a supercharger/turbo on the 993cc engine. The Nissan Micra/March was an early working production car using this system, if a little small to transfer.

The Lancia S4 was a race car, so although admirable was experimental so to speak = $$$$$

But this is a diagram of the VW setup to help things. They run some diesel TDI pressure valves which handle the boost and are off the shelf. The main bit was the control valves move slow enough to allow a smooth transition for the turbo to spool up. Otherwise you get a dip or flatspot.

The clutch control for the supercharger was a VAG part that was used to switch A/C on and off. It shuts it off when the rpm/boost is up.

tsi_airflow.png

fuck yeah

i like that dont know why i never came across it

its made the whole setup cleaner and esyer to set up

with the sc feeding the turbo.

thanks

dan

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The early Nissan March Superturbo (Micra K11 The square one) ran a supercharger/turbo on the 993cc engine. The Nissan Micra/March was an early working production car using this system, if a little small to transfer.

The Lancia S4 was a race car, so although admirable was experimental so to speak = $$$$$

But this is a diagram of the VW setup to help things. They run some diesel TDI pressure valves which handle the boost and are off the shelf. The main bit was the control valves move slow enough to allow a smooth transition for the turbo to spool up. Otherwise you get a dip or flatspot.

The clutch control for the supercharger was a VAG part that was used to switch A/C on and off. It shuts it off when the rpm/boost is up.

tsi_airflow.png

fuck yeah

i like that dont know why i never came across it

its made the whole setup cleaner and esyer to set up

with the sc feeding the turbo.

thanks

dan

not bad. flap valve is still better (not trying to be a dick). compressing shit in series in cars is retarded - fact. will ms paint something up tomorrow

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I thought that míght be more useful as that was the look you were going for - charger on the left and turbo on the right. 4agzet-20v-right.jpg I have seen the turbo behind the supercharger as pictured which is a Toyota 4agze 20v I think. But this is quite toasty.

Either way you plumb it is up to you.

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not bad. flap valve is still better (not trying to be a dick). compressing shit in series in cars is retarded - fact. will ms paint something up tomorrow

i do like the vw tsi set up but i dont

want then sc feeding the turbo.

so will probly go with the way i want to set it up.

cheers

dan

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I'd roll like this, but with the blower before the IC. Blowers make stupid heat, so the IC would be needed. PLus you could overdirve the supercharger to fuck and by the time it was just about to burst into flames the stupidly oversized turbo would have spooled and FUCKING BANG! the blower cuts out, and the car becomes invisible behind a mamoth smokescreen of burnt rubber. :badgrin:

Also with a clever top mount manifold for the turbo, the blower could be mounted down low on the other side of the engine. (There is FUCK ALL room on the intake side of a CA18det FWIW)

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