phr34kr Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 isnt that where 'intercooler' came from? I heard that FMIC's and all car ones are actually supposed to be called aftercoolers... Heard this also. also thinking about it i'm fairly sure Turbo----> intercooler---->SC---->intercooler---->TB wouldn't work as the TB may be forced open however Turbo----> intercooler---->TB-->SC---->intercooler---->Engine Would work wouldn't it? running the turbo charger before the SC is i believe what VW did on their twincharger 1.4 tsi and it looks like they used intercoolers between each stage, if this is how a modern engine is designed from factory it must be a pretty good option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.p.n.s Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 ok so this is what i have planed i'm sorry if its a bit of a long read. and to be honest this is all do able for me to build so it may seem a lot but its not really lol. i'm going to build my own air box to take a k@n panel filter (will find out from what model car when i find out how big the box will be) the air box will have 2 holes on the underside that will feed air to the turbo and the supercharger. the supercharger(sc14) will be bolted to the left side of the motor under and to the front of the turbo the inlet will be feed from the air box and the out let will run to a y peace before the inlet on the intercooler. (just a note i haven't thought about pulley sizes at this point) the turbo will be bolted as top mount setup (again haven't decided on turbo yet but will be externally gated) the air will be feed from the air box to the turbo and then from the out let on the turbo to a (homemade opening valve) the open valve will be made from 2 ca18 throttle bodies bolted back to back i will remove one of the butterflies. i will use an actuator from a old turbo mounted to open and close the butterfly (on one side of the butterfly shaft) the actuator will get signal from the compressor housing. on the other side of the butterfly shaft ill mount a swith(like the old brake light swith) that will click on and off as it opens and closes. this swith will then turn off and on the sc14. then from the opening valve the turbo intercooler pipe will go to the Y peace. just before the open valve there will be 2 pipes coming off 1 for a BOV that will vent back to the airbox the other will join to the sc14 intake pipe from the airbox this is so while the sc14 is running and the turbo is starting to spool in stead of the air going no where it will slowly feed the sc14 till the turbo makes a certin psi and the open valve will open. the BOV will have signal from the inlet plenum so when the throttle is shut off the air built up will be vented to the airbox. so thats on the inlet side of the intercooler on the outlet side the piping will go to the homemade plenum with an othe BOV that will just vent to atmo the inlet plenum will be boltd to a set of quad throttle bodies. and thats that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubblegoose Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 your diagram shows the sc going in after the valve thing, but then links in before? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Testament Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 surprsied no one has mentioned the hilmerson racing opel manta http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_pB_urnQmQ&feature=related unfortunately their website doesn't seem to be working atm and google only have these tiny pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.p.n.s Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 your diagram shows the sc going in after the valve thing, but then links in before? yeah thats right it will flow into the intercooler by its self the join befor the valve is for the flow from the turbo while its starting to spool till it gets to a certin psi then opens the valve shutting down the sc14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eke_zetec_RWD Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 that will just blow back out the turbo tho at low rpm...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.p.n.s Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 that will just blow back out the turbo tho at low rpm...... i new there was somting i for got to change on the drawing. but as i put in my write up it will be flowing into the sc14 intake pipe from the airbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNAMUCK Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 I don't have the mad skills to make a drawing show up in my post, But I'd rock the turbo oulet to the intoercooler, with the supercharger running in paralelle off that line before the I/C. Then fit a TB between where the supercharger comes in and out of that line. then once the turbo has spooled the blower cuts out, and the TB opens which means equal pressure each side of the supercharger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Ass Dragger Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Was just thinking for a motor like a 4age which had tvis or even the 3sgte could you dual inlet pleniums each plenium using its own set of 4 runners goining into the tvis plate, using one set of runners for the super charger and the other set for the turbo With the TVIS or what ever type of set up swiched off until the turbo had suffencent boost to supply the motor Random thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisu Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 The early Nissan March Superturbo (Micra K11 The square one) ran a supercharger/turbo on the 993cc engine. The Nissan Micra/March was an early working production car using this system, if a little small to transfer. The Lancia S4 was a race car, so although admirable was experimental so to speak = $$$$$ But this is a diagram of the VW setup to help things. They run some diesel TDI pressure valves which handle the boost and are off the shelf. The main bit was the control valves move slow enough to allow a smooth transition for the turbo to spool up. Otherwise you get a dip or flatspot. The clutch control for the supercharger was a VAG part that was used to switch A/C on and off. It shuts it off when the rpm/boost is up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.p.n.s Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 The early Nissan March Superturbo (Micra K11 The square one) ran a supercharger/turbo on the 993cc engine. The Nissan Micra/March was an early working production car using this system, if a little small to transfer. The Lancia S4 was a race car, so although admirable was experimental so to speak = $$$$$ But this is a diagram of the VW setup to help things. They run some diesel TDI pressure valves which handle the boost and are off the shelf. The main bit was the control valves move slow enough to allow a smooth transition for the turbo to spool up. Otherwise you get a dip or flatspot. The clutch control for the supercharger was a VAG part that was used to switch A/C on and off. It shuts it off when the rpm/boost is up. fuck yeah i like that dont know why i never came across it its made the whole setup cleaner and esyer to set up with the sc feeding the turbo. thanks dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-e Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 The early Nissan March Superturbo (Micra K11 The square one) ran a supercharger/turbo on the 993cc engine. The Nissan Micra/March was an early working production car using this system, if a little small to transfer. The Lancia S4 was a race car, so although admirable was experimental so to speak = $$$$$ But this is a diagram of the VW setup to help things. They run some diesel TDI pressure valves which handle the boost and are off the shelf. The main bit was the control valves move slow enough to allow a smooth transition for the turbo to spool up. Otherwise you get a dip or flatspot. The clutch control for the supercharger was a VAG part that was used to switch A/C on and off. It shuts it off when the rpm/boost is up. fuck yeah i like that dont know why i never came across it its made the whole setup cleaner and esyer to set up with the sc feeding the turbo. thanks dan not bad. flap valve is still better (not trying to be a dick). compressing shit in series in cars is retarded - fact. will ms paint something up tomorrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisu Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 I thought that mÃght be more useful as that was the look you were going for - charger on the left and turbo on the right. I have seen the turbo behind the supercharger as pictured which is a Toyota 4agze 20v I think. But this is quite toasty. Either way you plumb it is up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-e Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 thank you!!! that is exactly the engine pic i was trying to find Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.p.n.s Posted October 20, 2010 Author Share Posted October 20, 2010 not bad. flap valve is still better (not trying to be a dick). compressing shit in series in cars is retarded - fact. will ms paint something up tomorrow i do like the vw tsi set up but i dont want then sc feeding the turbo. so will probly go with the way i want to set it up. cheers dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisu Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 No worries, it will turn out OK. Being able to find shit on the net or make a presentation using photoshop isn't as good as being able to see a solution in your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truenotch Posted October 20, 2010 Share Posted October 20, 2010 http://toycrazy.net/index1.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUNAMUCK Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 http://toycrazy.net/index1.html I'd roll like this, but with the blower before the IC. Blowers make stupid heat, so the IC would be needed. PLus you could overdirve the supercharger to fuck and by the time it was just about to burst into flames the stupidly oversized turbo would have spooled and FUCKING BANG! the blower cuts out, and the car becomes invisible behind a mamoth smokescreen of burnt rubber. Also with a clever top mount manifold for the turbo, the blower could be mounted down low on the other side of the engine. (There is FUCK ALL room on the intake side of a CA18det FWIW) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.p.n.s Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 so true bart the ill have the sc and turbo on the trubo side. i just got a FUCKING BIG flapper falve from some sort of airplane part so i dont neeed to make my openvalve thingy. fucking sweet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-e Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 just dont double compress shit and keep in mind that a simple turbo setup is 1000 times easier and more efficient Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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