Welding and Machining hubs?

[Mr dori]

Hey guys, im planning on welding in some steel into my hubs as one bolt misse the hub, im going from 4 to 5 stud,

You guys rekon a mig or arc or tig for this? the material is Cast steel.

Anyone on here can lathe down excess material and redrill pcd or should that not be to hard?

Thanks mike

Just like these

http://www.serialnine.com/products/x7/chassis

[bubblegoose]

are you filling in a hole of building up material on the outer edge?

[Mr dori]

filling a gap on the edge up

this isnt a street car, it wont be dodgy bla bla haha

[Simon]

Tig would be the best option.

I see they guys at work heating the whole object in the oven on max temp, quickly welding, then putting back in the oven to cool slowly.

I'm not sure if they use special filler wire.

[bubblegoose]

tig would be good, xrays etc and go for it

[Mr dori]

mean 200amps with Large V, then get drilled to 5x114.3, Anyone got any tips to do this?

[Simon]

mean 200amps with Large V, then get drilled to 5x114.3, Anyone got any tips to do this?

Easiest with a mill and a turn table on the bed.

Cheapest with a compass, protractor, dot punch and hand drill.

I would use second option.

[Brock-Lee]

Mill with digitals will normally roll a pcd cutting function. dont have to worry about fucking around with dividing heads etc. bolt it down, type in pcd you want and then just follow the digitals.

[oldrx]

Can you weld and redrill hubs to change stud pattern? I want to go from 4x110 to 4x114

[Jase]

you need to pre heat the shit out of cast steel to weld it or build it up then cool it super slowly like overnight,

tig works best,

engineers in morrinsville doing my stub axles ie building up tie rod hole then reboring at 180 to flip the tie rod

[eke_zetec_RWD]

normal steel mig/tig wire is sweet to use. but yea preheat it. weld it. cool slowly.

take to machine shop to finish.

[Mr dori]

cool started sussing them, welded all 3 holes up, Welded 10mm plate to edges that need more material, Tog worked really well, welded real pure, did my first runs with no filler then layed it in,

Why pre heat it? the steel gots so hot strsight away, its still hot now about 2 hours after.

Will post up afew pics when done

Cheers

[Brock-Lee]

if you heat one bit up more than the rest when it cools it will shrink and warp and also put a stress into the component before you start loading it.

Cast steel you can get away a bit better with but cast iron is a bitch, goes hard/brittle etc.

[eke_zetec_RWD]

yea cast steel not as bad. cast iron can crack while cooling.

[Testament]

There are alot of "Depends" with doing something like this - especially on a critical item such as suspension or steering. sure its not for the road, but what is it for? what are the consequences if its fails? if you have considered those an are satisfied then ok. if not, go and consider them first.

As for actually welding up stuff like that, it depends on the thickness and the type of steel whether preheating and post heating are neccesary (and to what temperature) - there is a bunch of metallurgy/materials science as to what goes on but thats probably a bit much to go into here. the basics of it is - the edges, or heat affected zone (HAZ) on the edge of any weld ends up with a really shit birttle grain strucutre called martensite. preheating reduces this, but doesnt really stop it completely. the only way to get rid of it is to do heat treatment afterwards - and this again depends on the thickness, material and desired hardness and toughness (in the specific engineering materials senses)

Also just because a weld "looks" good doesn't actually mean jack shit - ESPECIALLY with tig welding! It's quite possible to make a perfect looking weld that has no penetration into the parent metal whatsoever. Hence xray testing is mandatory on pressure equipment and other critical welds in various industries. not saying your a shit welder, but you cant tell if its a properly good weld without xray, advanced ultrasonics or destructive testing.

Now ok enough scaremongering - if you can post a picture and dimensions of the hub(s) in question, plus what the intended use is then I can probably give you some idea if what your doing is at all acceptable in an engineering sesnse. and what you can try to do to get the best result.

even if you are just going to roll with it - do your very best when it comes to weld prep - make sure its absolutely clean and same with your welding rods. heat the rods in the oven (and the hub) to say 100 deg. before welding - this will get any moisture out of any crevices etc. then wrap up the hub in a welding blanket or some pink batts or something like that to make sure it cools as slow as possible.

[ProZac]

then wrap up the hub in a welding blanket or some pink batts or something like that to make sure it cools as slow as possible.

Batts, genius.

[oldrx]

There are alot of "Depends" with doing something like this - especially on a critical item such as suspension or steering. sure its not for the road, but what is it for? what are the consequences if its fails? if you have considered those an are satisfied then ok. if not, go and consider them first.

As for actually welding up stuff like that, it depends on the thickness and the type of steel whether preheating and post heating are neccesary (and to what temperature) - there is a bunch of metallurgy/materials science as to what goes on but thats probably a bit much to go into here. the basics of it is - the edges, or heat affected zone (HAZ) on the edge of any weld ends up with a really shit birttle grain strucutre called martensite. preheating reduces this, but doesnt really stop it completely. the only way to get rid of it is to do heat treatment afterwards - and this again depends on the thickness, material and desired hardness and toughness (in the specific engineering materials senses)

Also just because a weld "looks" good doesn't actually mean jack shit - ESPECIALLY with tig welding! It's quite possible to make a perfect looking weld that has no penetration into the parent metal whatsoever. Hence xray testing is mandatory on pressure equipment and other critical welds in various industries. not saying your a shit welder, but you cant tell if its a properly good weld without xray, advanced ultrasonics or destructive testing.

Now ok enough scaremongering - if you can post a picture and dimensions of the hub(s) in question, plus what the intended use is then I can probably give you some idea if what your doing is at all acceptable in an engineering sesnse. and what you can try to do to get the best result.

even if you are just going to roll with it - do your very best when it comes to weld prep - make sure its absolutely clean and same with your welding rods. heat the rods in the oven (and the hub) to say 100 deg. before welding - this will get any moisture out of any crevices etc. then wrap up the hub in a welding blanket or some pink batts or something like that to make sure it cools as slow as possible.

Not trying to hijack but...are there any engineering shops around that know their stuff that will do this sort of thing including heat treatment/xray etc (road car)? That F40 guy in Ak maybe?

We have a heat treat oven at work but i dont think it is hot enough for steel.

[Testament]

There are alot of "Depends" with doing something like this - especially on a critical item such as suspension or steering. sure its not for the road, but what is it for? what are the consequences if its fails? if you have considered those an are satisfied then ok. if not, go and consider them first.

As for actually welding up stuff like that, it depends on the thickness and the type of steel whether preheating and post heating are neccesary (and to what temperature) - there is a bunch of metallurgy/materials science as to what goes on but thats probably a bit much to go into here. the basics of it is - the edges, or heat affected zone (HAZ) on the edge of any weld ends up with a really shit birttle grain strucutre called martensite. preheating reduces this, but doesnt really stop it completely. the only way to get rid of it is to do heat treatment afterwards - and this again depends on the thickness, material and desired hardness and toughness (in the specific engineering materials senses)

Also just because a weld "looks" good doesn't actually mean jack shit - ESPECIALLY with tig welding! It's quite possible to make a perfect looking weld that has no penetration into the parent metal whatsoever. Hence xray testing is mandatory on pressure equipment and other critical welds in various industries. not saying your a shit welder, but you cant tell if its a properly good weld without xray, advanced ultrasonics or destructive testing.

Now ok enough scaremongering - if you can post a picture and dimensions of the hub(s) in question, plus what the intended use is then I can probably give you some idea if what your doing is at all acceptable in an engineering sesnse. and what you can try to do to get the best result.

even if you are just going to roll with it - do your very best when it comes to weld prep - make sure its absolutely clean and same with your welding rods. heat the rods in the oven (and the hub) to say 100 deg. before welding - this will get any moisture out of any crevices etc. then wrap up the hub in a welding blanket or some pink batts or something like that to make sure it cools as slow as possible.

Not trying to hijack but...are there any engineering shops around that know their stuff that will do this sort of thing including heat treatment/xray etc (road car)? That F40 guy in Ak maybe?

We have a heat treat oven at work but i dont think it is hot enough for steel.

Yeah there would be a few, but it's a matter of knowing who. yeah maybe that F40 guy - or south auckland forgings in drury would definitely be able to do it if they could be bothered. Or a good engineering/welding shop should be able to do the welding and then send it off to get heat treated by someone like heat treatments. Working out who is a cowboy and who really knows their stuff is the difficult part though.

How hot it has to go, for how long and how it is subsequently cooled controls the final properties of the steel, the details vary for different alloys (of steel) and different desired characteristics. pretty much you have to get it done by a professional if you want it done properly. you can do a rough job to make the bes you can at home/in the shop but it still requires a good knowledge of what your doing as you can make stuff way too soft or way too brittle if you get carried away one way or another - and you just wont have the control to get the ideal properties out of the material unless you are a really really clued up (in which case you wouldn't be asking).

Also it really depends on the actual dimensions and material of the part whether heat treatment would be neccesary - maybe the bit needing welding isn't in a highly stressed area, or whatever - at the end of the day it's one way of solving a problem, other ways might be turning up a custom hub, adapting a hub or complete strut from something else, getting wheels to suit the existing PCD. there are a few different options.

[Mr dori]

hey cheers for the info,

If it fails worst that happens is one of studs breaks off, there is still 4 outa 5 studs into original material.

Car is used for drifting,

Thanks heaps for your imput!

Mike

[kpr]

can probably wack them in the lathe, if you cant sort anyone closer, msn me