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For Questions Regarding WOFs/CERTs/NUMBER PLATEs


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Just now, Yowzer said:

There's really no point in debating the rules as LVVTA can say "nah bowl" on whatever, regardless of your interpretation. It's not like they're gonna be like "oh gee you're right, if you read it that way then yes you can slide through, we'll allow it", they'll just amend the rules.

Or worse and go well you fucked that opportunity, let’s go Aussie/Germany spec.

enjoy stock cars

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Haha don't get me wrong I think there should be requirement for a cert after a gearbox change.  

3 hours ago, Yowzer said:

Yes you would, because you are changing your car from its certified state. The same applies to anything else on the car. Once certified, you can't change back to factory wheels either.

If you don't like the rules, don't modify your car.

 

 

The way it was explained to me by a certifier was that after a cert that was essentially the new OE spec for the car, so any deviation requires recert, if the modifications don't meet the threshold then why would it require a recert?

Just now, Shakotom said:

Also think about it,

ol mate with diddles for fingers only puts half the amount of bolts in when putting a Gearbox in, -not ideal but probably not a big issue

yet half the bolts on a brake pedal or being a potato and forgetting to install the Clevis pin correctly / heating / cutting brake pedal may result in brakes failing in an emergency stop and that’s sort of important.

 

 

Those things would be modifying the braking system but swapping a pedal box is not. 

As I said before not having ago just a healthy discussion.

 

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11 hours ago, Esky_addict said:

Let's say I have a vehicle which was originally manual but has been engine swapped and auto is stated on cert plate, then it gets changed back to manual. 

I go for a WOF and the man says no deal as its not certed for the manual, however if the braking system is not modified it doesn't need a cert. Then i would have to get a cert for something that doesn't need certified lol

The other issue here is that with it being engine swapped, a another reasoning for the wof man saying no deal apart from not matching CERT plate is 99% of the time that manual conversion would probably not involve using all OE components to convert to manual. Wether that be a adapter plate to fit OEM gearbox, custom trans mount etc. 

Better case for argument here would be something like my s14, only certed for suspension mods but stock motor and auto gearbox. Manual swap would require CERT even if I used all OEM components And didn’t change the brake pedal because it no longer matches CERT plate, and the rule is it must match the cert plate.

However if I wanted to refit all my stock parts, get the cert plate removed, then manual swap using OEM parts and retain the auto brake pedal then GG I guess, but fuck that because you’ll probably fit the manual pedal so You wont stamp the brake pedal when youre trying to do clutch kicks.

 

-loophole would be non certed car converted to manual using 100% Oe non modified parts that still retains the OE auto brake pedal And the clutch pedal box/mount is not part of the brake pedal box / mount. 

-there are cars out there than manual and auto pedal boxes differ as they’re all in one (Early commodores etc) so swapping to that would be modifying a braking component. And you’d also find that pedals will probably touch/ be too close to use nicely etc.
WOF guys gonna probably refer you to certifier as that way liability is removed from him.
 

great discussion point etc, but legal answer is gonna be just get a cert, it ain’t that hard.

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Just now, Esky_addict said:

The way it was explained to me by a certifier was that after a cert that was essentially the new OE spec for the car, so any deviation requires recert, if the modifications don't meet the threshold then why would it require a recert?

Thresholds are different between unmodified cars and modified ones, in general. Cert allows you to go above and beyond what you can without one. However, once you go that way, the car needs to stay in that configuration. Just because cars are converted auto to manual, and not picked up by WOF inspectors as needing a cert, doesn't mean they don't need one. Joe Bloggs can potentially using any brake pedal and the odds of it being picked up at WOF time are slim. Zero testing will have been done on that part, to know it's actually suitable. Cert means everything has been checked over carefully and is compliant. Any change at that point has the potential to affect other areas.

Yeah I agree on the trans swap needing a cert, to using the current trendy term, too many diddle fingers out there doing the work.

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Just now, JoKer said:

can you trust some people to not cross thead with a zillion ugga dugga's a few bolts on critical components?

 

I mean tights tight right?

Just had a LandCruiser in like five minutes ago where the customer had fit their own ball joint. It was the wrong one and the taper was too small, and therefore not seating correctly. So no, you cannot trust anyone.

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Place needs more warrent inspectors like this most wouldn't pick that balljoint wasn't correct especially if it was muddy/2nd hand looking with everything else but still ping you for something like no water in washer. I do all my own work and like having someone check over my stuff to make sure it's safe as it's pretty easy to forget to tighten a bolt after you've had your whole car apart lol.

Just now, Yowzer said:

Just had a LandCruiser in like five minutes ago where the customer had fit their own ball joint. It was the wrong one and the taper was too small, and therefore not seating correctly. So no, you cannot trust anyone.

In my case I'm looking at buying a cruiser with cert for 1uz and auto but now manual back to manual.

The cert is meaningless as it requires a recert, I guess it should be easier for recert tho as only the gearbox mounts/pedal box will need inspected or does the whole conversion need rechecked. 

Kind of off topic but we were on a run in a mates 68 Impala a while back fresh full build and a upper a arm bolt fell out causing the whole top arm to depart at 60mph, so no cant trust anyone lol

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Just now, Esky_addict said:

 

, I guess it should be easier for recert tho as only the gearbox mounts/pedal box will need inspected or does the whole conversion need rechecked. 

 

Previously certed items only need a quick once over to make sure they are ok, but generally are covered by the original cert. 

So in your case, a certifier would check things affected by the swap, like the gearbox mounting, driveshaft, brake pedal etc, but wouldn't have to cert the engine mounts or do the emissions side of the paperwork as that is covered by the original cert, but would have a quick look at the mounts to make sure they were not held together with chewing gum, tek screws or cable ties

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Will be interesting to see how many people get pulled up for lack of droop. So many cars out there are so low that they must have next to no droop. Everyone will have to swap out their chopped springs @ WOF time. Slash they probably already have mail order WOFs.

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FYI - returning a vehicle to stock there are 2 processes are called a Full Return to Standard or Partial Return to Standard

Both require a certifier inspect the vehicle for any modifications that have been removed, and that they have been removed appropriately and safely and also that there are no subsequent modifications since originally certified.

If the answer to both is yes, then the certifier will remove the plate and get in touch with LVVTA to advise a full return to standard. LVVTA will remove the reference to the plate out of Landata or if it is a partial return to standard then LVVTA will print a revised plate and send to the certifier for them to fit.

Both require to pay the certifier for their time spent inspecting the vehicle, completing any paperwork and attaching the revised plate (if necessary) A partial return to standard also attracts a plate reprint fee from LVVTA.

Keeping in mind that if you are changing a gearbox that was originally changed from Manual to Auto before certification and now going back to Manual and the replacement gearbox is not the same as the original OE manual gearbox, then a full recert is required, because it is not returning to stock, it is a further modification.

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Starlet is registered as a 5 seater, but only has 4 seatbelts from factory (registered new in 1983, so later than the 79 requirement as far as I can tell?)

Cert plate also explicitly states 5 seats

Is this likely to cause me any issues?

 

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Just now, ajg193 said:

Starlet is registered as a 5 seater, but only has 4 seatbelts from factory (registered new in 1983, so later than the 79 requirement as far as I can tell?)

Cert plate also explicitly states 5 seats

Is this likely to cause me any issues?

I would check to see if it was actually classed as a 5 seater originally.  If it did  then it would have had 5 seatbelts from factory as that was the requirement in NZ from 1 November 1979.

Officially - if it only ever had 4 seatbelts from factory, I would look at getting it reclassed as a 4 seater and also get your cert plate changed so it is compliant.

Seatbelts.JPG.c07d667c619c5046f1ede471bf9fc504.JPG

Unofficially - it is unlikely to cause a problem for you unless someone was going over your car with a fine tooth comb which would not typically happen unless it was going through Low Volume or Entry Certification. The fact it has been through certification already says it passed a close scrutiny check once before so probably would't get picked up.

 

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Yeah, I CBF spending hours of my time going to and from the cert place and waiting on hold with NZTA  just to get it reclassified as a 4 seater. Easier to just find a brown lap belt and make it into a 5 seater...

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Just now, Yowzer said:

Adding a seatbelt will require a cert

 

:tongue:

It's always had 5 seatbelts. I don't know what you're on about.

 

/The car actually fits 6 adults in it, does sit on rear bumpstops when that happens though

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Hello @cletus I've tried searching but failed.

I need to mount my battery in the boot zone of my red car that you're a little bit familiar with already. It is an AGM type sealed battery. What are the requirements please (does it cross over with motorsport?).

I am going to make a tray/clamp for it.

Do the requisite fasteners need to mount through the tray AND the floor. Or can I have a tray mounted to the floor, then the battery mounted to the tray? Each using whichever fastener spec is required.

Thx and hugs, Richy,

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Hello Richard, 

There isn't a bolt size spec for attaching a battery for cert, it is pretty standard practice to attach a normal lead acid battery with 2 'j' bolts so if you do it to motorsport specs you will be fine

You could do it either way that you have described if I was making something myself I'd probably use 4x 6mm bolts to attach the frame to the floor then bolt the battery to the frame 

Words from the rules- 

20200603_202530.jpg

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